Can religion cause problems for the literal Aspie?

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I wonder sometimes about how people with literal minds process religious texts and teachings, and whether these teachings might be problematic at times.

For example, if you are raised a Christian but happen to be raised in a really conservative fire and brimstone type way, might those teachings actually damage the way you relate to life? Many people with AS take things very logically and literally, and some may live in terrible fear, not being able to readily step back from what they're hearing to put it all in perspective.

A faith can be helpful in life, but as we know there are wolves in religious institutions - bad and manipulative people - who can and do take advantage of the "gullible". I think it may be a concern.

I always understood the bible as a mix of literal and allegorical sections, and many passages can be read on both levels.

For example, the book of Job. It's possible Job was a real person and that is a literal story of his life. Or maybe Job never existed and its an allegory about trusting in G-d despite being tested. Or both.

I'm not sure autistic types would be particularly vulnerable. Most of the religious manipulators I see use manipulations based on raising expectations and playing on emotions. If anything, someone with Asperger's Syndrome would be immune to these sorts of appeals. Manipulators that I've seen tend to prey on people who don't have a strong sense of their own independence, who are willing to give up power or money in exchange for belonging. I would expect people with Asperger's Syndrome would either not understand this sort of thing, or understand it and not want to be involved.

A disturbing trend in Christianity is the embrace of quack health products, and the predators who market them to Christians using "affinity marketing" (ie pretending to be Christian when selling, and linking the quack products to Christianity). Hopefully someone with Asperger's Syndrome would either ignore this sort of thing, or do some research and figure out these are quacks.

Religious people seem happy to ignore autism. No money to be made from people with Asperger's Syndrome, I guess.

Thanks so much for your observations; I find them to be excellent.

I'd just like to add that one exception may be the Aspie who has faith, and desperately wants to belong to a group of people who he or she may identify (perhaps naively) as being kinder, better, and "safer" than general society. And then, that person may end up getting abused...

If you want to belong to a religious group, you kind of have to align your thinking with theirs... and even if certain things you hear don't make sense, you might sabotage your own mind and question whether your own belief is right. Leaders may preach, "we have the total truth; if you don't believe it, it's the devil trying to sow doubts" or "just pray and obey - you'll see the light" - that type of thing.

You never know, but there may be people out there who will end up in such a predicament. It's worrying, because manipulators tend to be gifted at sniffing out the trusting and innocent people. And it's those trusting and innocent people who need God's help and protection the most, if in fact this God exists at all. If it could be proven that he doesn't, well then it's game over for religion. At least we'd have the serenity of knowing that it's all a ruse.

Are you implying aspie types are devoid of affect and emotion? If so, how did you ever come to that conclusion?

ruveyn

Last edited by ruveyn on 30 Aug 2012, 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hopefully Trencher will explain further, but from my own observations, I can see how an Aspie might be insulated from group-popularity dynamics - mainly, if his or her own life is satisfying enough and they're not looking to fill some void. It's when you feel that you have a social void to fill that you are at your most vulnerable, because some snake somewhere will feel you out and may take ruthless advantage of you. I hate to say it but I know this first hand.

Why were we made so not-cut-out for a social world that values image and appearance over actual fact?

Sometimes I wonder whether there isn't some kind of eternal or spiritual answer to that. I have no idea, but it would help if there were a reason, or a mission, behind autism and the significant socio-cognitive differences that it entails.

Whenever I look at Temple Grandin, I see all the benefits that her autism has brought to the world.

Makes me more and more dissatisfied that so many people look at autism purely as a disability.

Sorry to ramble on like this, but another example entered my head.

Suppose you are Christian and you hear your pastor harping on about how unworthy and sinful humanity is. That you deserve hellfire for your sins, blah blah, etc. What is the danger that someone with perseverative thinking may take what they hear and absorb it, and start believing it to the point of self-destruction?

Of course the message should always end on a good note, that God is loving etc., but there are some really gloomy pastors out there, some of whom love to pound the fear into people.

That's just one example of where I think religion might be problematic, when compounded with perseverative thinking.

Many people where I live do take it literally. Even the part about the talking snake. Even though the Bible doesn't say the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is an apple, there are some here who won't eat apples and who think snakes are the devil incarnate.

On a similar note, I can't stand it when they talk about "accepting Jesus into their heart" because I always want to say "anything in your heart other than blood is going to cause a problem, most likely death"

Of course they could just convert to Catholicism and that way they would have the literal body and blood of Jesus, except it still looks, tastes and acts like bread and wine.

Some of the literal folks here talk about metaphoric things, like "putting on the whole armor of God" and "praying a hedge around someone" etc. Drives me nuts. Then again, overly religious people of any persuasion drive me nuts.

IMHO, Autistics tend to be more pragmatic about life, and thus for many of us, religion/God is seen as nonsensical. As a child I followed the church because of my parents, but as I grew I moved on and became more "practical." I think of myself as "spiritual" but not religious. Yet many Autistics are very religious. So everyone is different.

Yes, definitely. Especially with those of us looking for a consistent belief system that works for everyone, everywhere, and all of the time.

Religion seems to be mostly the result of subjective experience and interpretation, so every person is likely to have his or her own interpretation of what their particular holy scriptures may be. To top it off, there are far too many rules to obey all of them -- break even one, and you're suddenly an outcast (at least) or damned for all eternity.

Bingo. That's my problem too.

I know it's politically incorrect in the extreme to say this (we're supposed to be subjective and think that there's truth in all religions...), but either there is one true religion, or all of them are wrong to some extent (or even entirely). This is because you can't reconcile all the competing and conflicting dogmas they each present, and still have the whole thing hold together logically.

That's a problem - especially for those who overthink it. Those who don't think but obey the tenets of their particular faith probably don't have this concern or quandary.

When I was younger I did that whole "CCD" I think it is called, anyways some sort religious study. Anyways my faith was Catholicism, and I had difficulty with not taking the bible literally. I think I angered some of the teachers questioning how the father can be all forgiving, if he makes us do his bidding, and enforces it with an eternity in a lake of fire. I don't remember it too much but my mother says I got into it with someone about the father being too hard on his son or something. I didn't go all the way through it though, it wasn't working out.

As far as manipulation goes, I guess that experience proves it wouldn't be too effective on me. Well at least regarding faith, was always a tad gullible with bullies.

My problem with the Christian understanding of God has to do with his purported omniscience and omnipotence.

If he knows everything, it means that he must know what's going to happen. And if he's omnipotent and loving, it means that he could step in and stop all evil from taking place - or, further still, could make it so that for every evil act, there would be an immediate and credible reaction; much like when you contradict the laws of physics, the consequences are immediate and visible.

I just have a hard time really believing in an all knowing, all powerful all benevolent being not wanting the best outcome, and what's more, not choosing to see it through, because he in fact could do so in the wink of an eye. Logically it doesn't make sense.

Explanations that its our human sinfulness that causes all evil don't quite cut it with me. Are we really that despicable? Some people are - mainly the psychopaths out there - but most people are ordinary folks trying to get through life, not seeking to cause others pain.

It's POSSIBLE for God to step in and stop all evil from taking place. But why is it NECESSARY to assume that He must do something just because He can? Just because you don't like how God handles things doesn't mean God doesn't know what is best, and neither does it mean that the way things are aren't the best that they could be given the circumstances of human nature.


How do you know that God doesn't want the best outcome? How do you know God hasn't chosen to see it through? Why assume that God's ability to act requires Him to do so?


That's because most people don't want to believe that there is anything wrong with them. They are perfect the way they are. They don't need to be "saved." Well...if that really is true...they don't need God, do they?

But if we human beings really are fallible and we are willing to admit that we are fallible, isn't it comforting to know that God loves us and accepts us as we are? And if we can't change, if we can't make ourselves perfect, doesn't it make sense that a God who can change us, make us what He intended us to be, and do everything for us we can't possibly do for ourselves is a God worth believing in?

Right, but can you see how not knowing that it is all in fact as you say can lead one to question and doubt, over and over again, in perpetual uncertainty?

We are taking a certain viewpoint at face value when we simply choose to accept that it is all thus and thus.

I guess what I'm saying is that knowledge is far more comforting than uncertainty. To know it is thus, would eliminate the need to ask whether it indeed is.