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FMX
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01 Sep 2012, 9:46 pm

Given how scientifically-minded many aspies are I would love to see an aspie with psychic abilities, because they're exactly the type of person who would document all the details, details, details. I certainly would if I had any such ability. Unfortunately, I don't.

I don't "believe" in psychics, but nor do I "believe" in the lack thereof. I do believe that the overwhelming majority of people who claim to be psychic are not, but we cannot conclude from this that no person has true psychic abilities. At best we can say the probability is low enough that we can discount it for all practical purposes - but not for philosophical or even scientific purposes.

Fnord wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
I predict Fnord will be showing up in this thread to give his opinions on "psychics." Let's see if I'm psychic......

There is no valid, empirical evidence to support any claim for the existence of psychics or any other supernatural or "meta-natural" abilities or beings.

Mere coincidence is not a factor. Nor is stating one's observation of a behavioral trend.

a. Spur a horse, and he will move.
b. You have spurred a horse.
: : The horse has moved.

a. Start a thread on psychics, and Fnord will post in it.
b. A thread was started on psychics.
: : Fnord has posted.

Psychic? Not at all.

Coincidence? Not really.

Behavioral observation? Definitely.

I defy anyone to provide valid empirical evidence for the existence of psychic ability ... something other than subjective belief, apocryphal accounts, or any kind of rationalistic bullsnot like, "You can't prove it false, so it must be true".


I further predict that Fnord will see the sarcasm in XFilesGeek's post.



SavageMessiah
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01 Sep 2012, 10:01 pm

Yeah maybe there should be a better term than "psychic" for having a better-than-most ability to gather useful information from a finer granularity of both concrete and implied cues.

Maybe that would alleviate some of the immature chest-puffing going on out there in the world. Better yet, who cares...


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OliveOilMom
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01 Sep 2012, 10:06 pm

Venger wrote:
So called "psychics" usually speak in very general non-specific terms when they're pretending to read the future.


I don't. And I don't pretend. I tell them what I see. I'm as specific as possible because otherwise it's not helpful.

There are a LOT of scam artists out there, trust me. However, not everybody is one.


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01 Sep 2012, 10:26 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I TOTALLY WIN!! ! :lol:

Not yet, you haven't...

Click This Link to learn of an offer of $1,000,000 (U.S.) to anyone that can demonstrate paranormal abilities under laboratory conditions.

Win that, and you can legitimately call your win "Total".

Otherwise, the only people you can convince of your "psychic" abilities are other "psychics".


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01 Sep 2012, 10:32 pm

Might as well try it.. Retirement benefits likely won't exist in 40 years...


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02 Sep 2012, 12:19 am

phyrehawke wrote:
I find the quantum science very interesting, when I take the time to look at it.
I also believe that just because we haven't yet found an underlying system that may provide psychic links, doesn't mean one doesn't exist, or that some people haven't intuitively found a way to use it. I don't think we know everything yet. The world would be such a boring place if we did.

I look at "psychic" stuff like I look at every religious/spiritual system. Most of them require you believe in something you can't see and can't prove exists, yet lots of people do, and grow up thinking it's normal and don't ever question it. Prayer, Miracles, Energy Healing...that could be a long list. With so many cultures in agreement all over the world and across a large span of time I think there is a decent arguement for something being there that we don't understand yet.



Exactly.

It can currently neither be proven that psychic stuff exists, OR proven that it doesnt. People can throw reasoning at it all they want, but that's the simple fact of it. Just as with alot of things. Skeptics like to think they know everything, but the simple fact is that there's ALOT of things that current science simply cannot do, or even come remotely CLOSE to doing. Is exactly why I tend to consider the "skeptic" attitude type to be fairly dopey. If psychic stuff is real, it's likely something that simply cannot be properly examined with our current level of technology. I have a hard time understanding why this concept is so hard for people. I always get a mental image of ancient days, someone trying to explain to others that hey, the world is actually round! but everyone going "NOPE, you cant possibly prove that! No evidence! CLEARLY that instantly means it's flat!" (and no, I dont care if that's not a bloody perfect example, it was the first thing to pop into my head, so I used it). I have nothing against skeptical people, mind you; I think people should be free to think however they like. But I still find that type of attitude rather silly.

And as you said..... if science knew EVERYTHING already, it'd be pretty freaking dull, wouldnt it?

As for me specifically, my own ability to predict things isnt some half-remembered childhood incident, or something really fishy like that. It's something I do DAILY (and no, I dont give a rat's ass if anyone here believes me or not). And again, I havent the foggiest damn clue wether it is something like psychic whatsits, or wether it's some sort of extrapolation, or what. Really dont care; even if it IS that sort of thing, it's seriously NOT that big of a deal, or all that interesting. It's just a thing I am able to do. Hell, I find feats of athleticism much more impressive than that sort of thing.

I'll never understand why people get so arguementive about this type of subject (I also dont actually care what the reason is, frankly). If you believe in it, great. If you dont, great. But either way, it's best to NOT run around trying to shove it down people's throats. Let others believe what they believe and think how they want to think. I dont know why skeptic types often see the need to do exactly that, shove the "NOPE" concept down others' throats. Again, I'm sure as heck not saying ALL skeptics are like that, but I see this happen enough for it to be really rather annoying.


Anyway, I'm not jumping into any sort of arguement with this if one should develop, or trying to berate anyone, I'm just offering my two cents, basically. I'm also really bored. Really, really bored.



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02 Sep 2012, 1:51 am

Misery wrote:
phyrehawke wrote:
I find the quantum science very interesting, when I take the time to look at it.
I also believe that just because we haven't yet found an underlying system that may provide psychic links, doesn't mean one doesn't exist, or that some people haven't intuitively found a way to use it. I don't think we know everything yet. The world would be such a boring place if we did.

I look at "psychic" stuff like I look at every religious/spiritual system. Most of them require you believe in something you can't see and can't prove exists, yet lots of people do, and grow up thinking it's normal and don't ever question it. Prayer, Miracles, Energy Healing...that could be a long list. With so many cultures in agreement all over the world and across a large span of time I think there is a decent arguement for something being there that we don't understand yet.



Exactly.

It can currently neither be proven that psychic stuff exists, OR proven that it doesnt. People can throw reasoning at it all they want, but that's the simple fact of it. Just as with alot of things. Skeptics like to think they know everything, but the simple fact is that there's ALOT of things that current science simply cannot do, or even come remotely CLOSE to doing. Is exactly why I tend to consider the "skeptic" attitude type to be fairly dopey. If psychic stuff is real, it's likely something that simply cannot be properly examined with our current level of technology. I have a hard time understanding why this concept is so hard for people. I always get a mental image of ancient days, someone trying to explain to others that hey, the world is actually round! but everyone going "NOPE, you cant possibly prove that! No evidence! CLEARLY that instantly means it's flat!" (and no, I dont care if that's not a bloody perfect example, it was the first thing to pop into my head, so I used it). I have nothing against skeptical people, mind you; I think people should be free to think however they like. But I still find that type of attitude rather silly.

And as you said..... if science knew EVERYTHING already, it'd be pretty freaking dull, wouldnt it?

As for me specifically, my own ability to predict things isnt some half-remembered childhood incident, or something really fishy like that. It's something I do DAILY (and no, I dont give a rat's ass if anyone here believes me or not). And again, I havent the foggiest damn clue wether it is something like psychic whatsits, or wether it's some sort of extrapolation, or what. Really dont care; even if it IS that sort of thing, it's seriously NOT that big of a deal, or all that interesting. It's just a thing I am able to do. Hell, I find feats of athleticism much more impressive than that sort of thing.

I'll never understand why people get so arguementive about this type of subject (I also dont actually care what the reason is, frankly). If you believe in it, great. If you dont, great. But either way, it's best to NOT run around trying to shove it down people's throats. Let others believe what they believe and think how they want to think. I dont know why skeptic types often see the need to do exactly that, shove the "NOPE" concept down others' throats. Again, I'm sure as heck not saying ALL skeptics are like that, but I see this happen enough for it to be really rather annoying.


Anyway, I'm not jumping into any sort of arguement with this if one should develop, or trying to berate anyone, I'm just offering my two cents, basically. I'm also really bored. Really, really bored.

Skepticism implies doubt towards a proposition, not outright belief in its falsehood.



Misery
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02 Sep 2012, 2:18 am

Tiranasta wrote:
Skepticism implies doubt towards a proposition, not outright belief in its falsehood.


Hm, true.

Mostly I just get annoyed at how that type can act sometimes. I dont mean anyone here on THIS forum, but just in a general sense. Seen it a bazillion times on other forums that I go to.

But, that's just how it is, I guess.



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02 Sep 2012, 2:35 am

I've had dreams that then happened in real life. The dreams were very specific and I've even talked about them with people and then found myself re-experiencing them in real life. It's not common and it's never important circumstances. They're all conversations and very specific, so not something based on a "feeling".
Which is all very confusing because, like I said, none of them are important. It's just random conversations.



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02 Sep 2012, 3:49 am

To those with first hand experience
no explanation is necessary
To those that dont
none is possible

imagine going back in time
and showing someone
a computer
a packet of crisps

I love you sceptics
so wise you are
not



Jinks
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02 Sep 2012, 5:46 am

I also don't like the word "psychic" and wouldn't use it. I prefer to use the word "intuitive" rather than psychic. I follow my intuition all the time, even when doing so seems illogical based on the facts, and it always turns out to be the correct action or decision. There does not necessarily have to be any supernatural cause behind this. Rather, I think heightened intuition would be natural to everyone if most people were not out of tune with theirs because they have been taught to rely on external factors like logic and what others tell them is correct.

Having said that, I am very into spirtuality, meditation, energy healing, and so on. I have had many powerful spiritual experiences, and meditation and energy work based on ancient Chinese healing techniques have been the only things which helped me significantly improve my functioning and emotional difficulties, after trying many other things like NLP, hypnosis, talking therapy, and so on. I really recommend practicing meditation - the more scientifically minded people here may be reassured to know that testing has proven it to be very beneficial to brain function (it is like exercise for the mind), stress levels, and overall health. I would be interested to know if others here find meditation to be easy, rather than difficult, as the vast majority of people seem to find it a great challenge to do but it has always come very naturally to me.



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02 Sep 2012, 6:10 am

My wishes usually seem to come true, like when I wanted my sister's apartment (it's pretty big and rented cheap because my stepfather owns it), and a few months later they moved away and I got to move there.

Also I have this friend who is strikingly similar to myself. Sometimes he says random things in the chat, and I have just thought of that thing a moment before. Like when I was cooking, I wondered to myself how it would taste is the meat used in it was from Human, and in the chat my friend said "cannibalism".

It's probably a coincidence though, if seemingly odd.



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02 Sep 2012, 6:15 am

i like how people invoke everything from their favourite skyfather to the intricacies of QM,

yes QM is werid and yes its hard to make sense of, yes there are things that are truly weird (weirder than any psychic story ever could be, heating a cup of tea changes every single piece of matter in the universe, very subtly)

but QM is understandable it is calculable and there is still no indication that it allows anything of the sort described by others here.

as fnord says most humans barely have any idea jsut how inaccurate their memories are, evey time you remember anything, at all, you are actually changing it, your brain impacts what you remember as much as it impacts you.

again i dont see why anyone would hold such a skill back form the multiple millions scattered for claim around the world.


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02 Sep 2012, 6:18 am

This is impossible for anyone, so no, it cannot be.



Misery
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02 Sep 2012, 7:17 am

Oodain wrote:
i like how people invoke everything from their favourite skyfather to the intricacies of QM,

yes QM is werid and yes its hard to make sense of, yes there are things that are truly weird (weirder than any psychic story ever could be, heating a cup of tea changes every single piece of matter in the universe, very subtly)

but QM is understandable it is calculable and there is still no indication that it allows anything of the sort described by others here.

as fnord says most humans barely have any idea jsut how inaccurate their memories are, evey time you remember anything, at all, you are actually changing it, your brain impacts what you remember as much as it impacts you.

again i dont see why anyone would hold such a skill back form the multiple millions scattered for claim around the world.


QM is a point I bring up to.... er..... make a point. Not sure how to phrase it.

People tend to disbelieve in certain things sometimes because it does not fit in with their own personal logic, or scientific logic, or whatever. Quantum Mechanics, I use as an example because of just how completely screwed up it is. In theory, yes, it's all understandable and calculable..... EVENTUALLY. Right now, science can only sorta flail in it's general direction.

As you say, that stuff is actually MUCH stranger than any psychic happenings (and is likely to get BEYOND strange once scientists are capable of poking more deeply into it), but it's very similar in how freaking strange it is, and how the "logic" it follows is very, very warped compared to what most people consider logic to be. It requires an entirely new way of thinking to even begin to grasp it.

But people are willing to accept it because Science has been able to have a bit of a nibble at it.

When it comes to psychic stuff, even if Science cant get at it RIGHT THIS FREAKING SECOND, that does not mean it doesnt exist; it merely means that Science cant do anything about it. YET. There may well come a day when advances in science suddenly allow scientists to finally dig at this, and find out what, if anything, is REALLY there, as pertains to this particular subject. Heck, there's bound to be lots.... and lots..... and LOTS of stuff that science cannot get at RIGHT THIS FREAKING SECOND..... but that doesnt mean that it (whatever "it" is) doesnt exist.


My thoughts on the subject of psychic mumbo-jumbo is pretty simple: I have a general idea that it probably exists, based on my own experiences, and my own logic, and various things I have learned (and I have ALOT of time to sit around pondering things), buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut...... I also think that pretty much NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, really actually understands how to harness any of it. People might get flickers of effects every now and then.... some may be more prone to this than others.... but actual, direct control simply isnt doable right now. This is BECAUSE nobody really understands it. I mean, how can you really USE something that nobody can figure out the workings of? It'd be like trying to build a computer without even knowing that electricity exists. Science cant really get at it right now, and until it can, doing bigger things with it just aint happening.

Of course, it *really* doesnt help that there really are so many..... how do I put this...... con-artists out there, taking advantage of the IDEA of psychic whatsits, in order to make a buck or two.


Either way though, I really dont understand WHY people can get in such a tiff over this particular subject. It's one of those things where I always wanna say to people, ok, calm down, stop arguing, it's NOT that big of a deal or even all that interesting. That crazy quantum crap is way more interesting than any of this, go argue about THAT instead.



Aaaaaaanyway, that's pretty much the end of my own ramblings on this particular topic, I've said all I wanted to say, so I'll stop here and let the rest of you go at it :D



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02 Sep 2012, 7:59 am

when i say that QM is weird i dont mean that there are things we cant explain(there are),

what i do mean is that we have fully explained behavior that is a lot weirder than psychic abilities, without much difficulty,
so i dont think its very likely that there is any explicit effect called psychic ability, it is a far more plausible and simple explanation that people are delusional, we already know they are out there, we already know that the human mind lends itself directly to delusion by its very function.

all of this is not to say that it cant explicitly exist but that with what we know today it is a vanishingly small chance for that to be true, even in the most subtle and vague ways.(as in i actually rank the spontaneous disapearance of the entire earth as more likel, we know that it theoretically can happeny)

we know there are some causality issues when dealing with choices in the context of entanged particles, but the ammount of specification thats needed to tease out this effect is absolutely ridicoulous.

i would read up on QM before trying to use it to invoke anything but QM,

also one never needs to disprove non proven concepts, the burden of proof lies solely on the positive claim, ie psychics are real.

and why wouldnt a psychich want to prove it real?

if nothing else the multiple millions of dollars offered trhoughout the world, even if they dont want anything of it, can be used to donate to cancer, staring children in africa or any other charity in dire need.
it just doesnt add up, in any way shape or form.


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