Psychic abilities

Post Reply New Topic

This is impossible for anyone, so no, it cannot be.

QM is a point I bring up to.... er..... make a point. Not sure how to phrase it.

People tend to disbelieve in certain things sometimes because it does not fit in with their own personal logic, or scientific logic, or whatever. Quantum Mechanics, I use as an example because of just how completely screwed up it is. In theory, yes, it's all understandable and calculable..... EVENTUALLY. Right now, science can only sorta flail in it's general direction.

As you say, that stuff is actually MUCH stranger than any psychic happenings (and is likely to get BEYOND strange once scientists are capable of poking more deeply into it), but it's very similar in how freaking strange it is, and how the "logic" it follows is very, very warped compared to what most people consider logic to be. It requires an entirely new way of thinking to even begin to grasp it.

But people are willing to accept it because Science has been able to have a bit of a nibble at it.

When it comes to psychic stuff, even if Science cant get at it RIGHT THIS FREAKING SECOND, that does not mean it doesnt exist; it merely means that Science cant do anything about it. YET. There may well come a day when advances in science suddenly allow scientists to finally dig at this, and find out what, if anything, is REALLY there, as pertains to this particular subject. Heck, there's bound to be lots.... and lots..... and LOTS of stuff that science cannot get at RIGHT THIS FREAKING SECOND..... but that doesnt mean that it (whatever "it" is) doesnt exist.


My thoughts on the subject of psychic mumbo-jumbo is pretty simple: I have a general idea that it probably exists, based on my own experiences, and my own logic, and various things I have learned (and I have ALOT of time to sit around pondering things), buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut...... I also think that pretty much NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, really actually understands how to harness any of it. People might get flickers of effects every now and then.... some may be more prone to this than others.... but actual, direct control simply isnt doable right now. This is BECAUSE nobody really understands it. I mean, how can you really USE something that nobody can figure out the workings of? It'd be like trying to build a computer without even knowing that electricity exists. Science cant really get at it right now, and until it can, doing bigger things with it just aint happening.

Of course, it *really* doesnt help that there really are so many..... how do I put this...... con-artists out there, taking advantage of the IDEA of psychic whatsits, in order to make a buck or two.


Either way though, I really dont understand WHY people can get in such a tiff over this particular subject. It's one of those things where I always wanna say to people, ok, calm down, stop arguing, it's NOT that big of a deal or even all that interesting. That crazy quantum crap is way more interesting than any of this, go argue about THAT instead.



Aaaaaaanyway, that's pretty much the end of my own ramblings on this particular topic, I've said all I wanted to say, so I'll stop here and let the rest of you go at it

when i say that QM is weird i dont mean that there are things we cant explain(there are),

what i do mean is that we have fully explained behavior that is a lot weirder than psychic abilities, without much difficulty,
so i dont think its very likely that there is any explicit effect called psychic ability, it is a far more plausible and simple explanation that people are delusional, we already know they are out there, we already know that the human mind lends itself directly to delusion by its very function.

all of this is not to say that it cant explicitly exist but that with what we know today it is a vanishingly small chance for that to be true, even in the most subtle and vague ways.(as in i actually rank the spontaneous disapearance of the entire earth as more likel, we know that it theoretically can happeny)

we know there are some causality issues when dealing with choices in the context of entanged particles, but the ammount of specification thats needed to tease out this effect is absolutely ridicoulous.

i would read up on QM before trying to use it to invoke anything but QM,

also one never needs to disprove non proven concepts, the burden of proof lies solely on the positive claim, ie psychics are real.

and why wouldnt a psychich want to prove it real?

if nothing else the multiple millions of dollars offered trhoughout the world, even if they dont want anything of it, can be used to donate to cancer, staring children in africa or any other charity in dire need.
it just doesnt add up, in any way shape or form.

I have actually read up on the QM stuffs, which is exactly why I keep bringing it up. It's crazy and fascinating at the same time, and fits my own warped way of thinking/reasoning pretty well. I dont normally find science stuff to be all that interesting, except where it relates to computers (since that's a core interest of mine), but Quantum stuff...... yeah, interesting.


I will say one last thing though: Questions like "why WOULDNT they want everyone to know about it and learn it?" have a REALLY obvious answer: Because people are freaking nuts, that's why. And greedy, and angry, hateful, downright insane sometimes..... There's LOTS of people in positions of power that could be using their money and influence to help the needy, and stuff like that, but instead toss it at bloody stupid things like war machines, or perhaps private yachts, and stuff like that. There's about 8 squillionty examples of people NOT being helpful or doing things to benefit others, and it's very rarely for a reason that really makes sense. So yeah, I can TOTALLY see someone finding some important secret (doesnt have to be in any way related to this subject), and just sitting on it simply because they are a jerk and think it's funny, or something bloody stupid like that. I've known people like that in person, so...... lol.

It'd be nice if more people, particularly those with power and influence, actually REALLY cared about doing things to benefit others, but.... that seems a pretty rare thing.

That though of course, is a whole other topic worthy of it's own discussion, but I wont derail this further.

People used to say that weird psychic powers were possible because most humans use only 10%-20% of their brain power. So the argument was that using around 100% could give psychic abilities. This has since been proven to be a myth though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_percent_of_brain_myth

that is all people that already have enough, many who do psychic stuff and takes money for it does it because they have no other option, a million would do wonders for those people.
yet when you say this to them they always come with some ill defined excuse for why they dont take that money, the charities were preemptive to that.

as you said poeople are in general nuts, which is why occams razor points to that being the cause of psychics in the first place.

if you had read up on it you would know that a great deal of it is already well known, to the point of tedium, there are areas of unknown weirdness but not in the general anything is possible way required.

When I say people are "nuts", I dont actually mean things like insanity or delusions or hallucinations; THAT sort of thing is a very small minority.

I consider things like, say, drinking alchohol to be "nuts". A drink that literally does nothing but make you slower and stupider for the duration of it's effect, and people are OBSESSED with it. Bloody stupid, and rather illogical. Or American Football..... yeah, lets all VIOLENTLY CRASH INTO EACH OTHER because the game's rules say that makes sense. Injury be damned!

And the bit about people in power, I just used them as an example of that way of thinking because they're the most incredibly obvious. But normal, working class people do that same kind of crap all the time anyway. Holding back knowledge out of selfishness, or because they think it's funny, or because they think it makes them smarter than others, or all sorts of other damn stupid reasons. It sure as heck isnt just people with influence that do this. The vast majority of people seem to do this sort of thing (or similar things) to some extent.

People can do these sorts of things because they are jerks, or because they reason out that they think they should, or because they are selfish, or because they think it's funny, or because the purple monkey that lives in their attic told them to do it. That's why I say things like "Well if they HAD this knowledge or this thing or whatever, OBVIOUSLY they'd share it with everyone" is absolutely untrue. A great many people very much would not.


And again, I dont mean all this in relation to this particular subject (the psychic stuff). I mean all of this in a general sense, as it can relate to ANY topic.

EDIT: And, oh bugger, suddenly I look at the clock and it's time for bed. If anyone says anything at me here, and I DONT respond, dont be offended, it simply means I forgot about this topic. I've a very hard time remembering things from one day to the next.

LoL.

TheSunAlsoRises

The world would claim that such people did not exist.

http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/savant_syndrome/

When I read an article that states, Dr. Temple Grandin can run machinery in her mind FIRST inorder to test to see IF it actually works then......

When I read an article that states, John Elder Robison can determine the frequency, amplitude, and sound of a piece of equipment simply by observing flashing lights then...

When I read an article that states, an individual can calender calculate over hundreds of years without being exposed to calenders then.....

I have to take in consideration everything, i can't dismiss it because of lack of conventional proof. Why ? These people are doing unconventional things compared to the general population....

TheSunAlsoRises

continue


And, none of these folks can tell you, how they actually do IT. Daniel Tammet can relay what he sees, how his mind works( in regards to synesthetic relationships), BUT he can not tell you the automatic mechanisms working, no more than a non-Autistic person could tell you how.



TheSunAlsoRises

Oh, I'm so glad someone asked this; I've wondered for the longest time if I'm not sort of psychic, too. For instance, there have been times when I'll be able to predict exactly what someone's going to say next, or when I'm asleep, I'll have a small premonition of some small thing that might happen the next day, and then when it does happen the next day, I'm like, "I KNEW that was going to happen!" And I always thought I was just imagining it. I'm so relieved that there are others!

I have heard similar explanations to both explain "psychic" predictions and to explain why they are only ever reported after the fact and are never so literally predictive.

I had a similar experience. If I was related to people who believed in psychic powers, I might to this day believe I made a psychic prediction. But I come from a long and proud line of skeptics. When I was in highschool, my grandfather died. The night before he died, I dreamed that he would. My dad told me he had died and then in shock, I related this psychic dream. He gently told me that I had probably dreamed that he died every night, since he had become suddenly and terribly ill, but that I only recalled the dream after his death was confirmed.

Suppose I had told them about the dream before they told me of his death? Would that be proof of psychic powers? No. Not if what my dad said was correct, that I was likely dreaming of his death ever since hearing the news he had become terribly sick. But it could seem that way if I had a non-skeptical family, because they would conveniently forget the other times I'd told them about a similar dream and then everybody forgot about it because it didn't come true.

I think that we fill in holes in memories with facts that fit our desired narrative. I also think that we more permanently forget things that don't have a reason to be cemented in long term memory. Kids often describe dreams to their parents. The details get forgotten unless actual events make the dream important in some way. Then that event gets filed into the long term memory of all the family members who were there and can seem like a psychic event, corroborated by multiple people. That is a likely scenario for what happened when InThisTogether was a child.

The dog may have been in danger from running into the road multiple times previously, causing recurring nightmares about his death. The times where that nigthmare didn't come true would not stay in the memories of any family members, only the one time (out of many) that it did. I wasn't there, so I don't know. But it seems more plausible (since it doesn't break laws of physics) than literally knowing the future. Humans are good at predicting things based on data we may not even realize we collected. A child can subconsciously know a dog is in danger based on over-hearing things the adults say or witnessing some near misses.

My father, in true aspie skepticism, would scoff at the idea that I had predicted the future. Or had a premonition, or whatever.

As I said, I don't even know what it was, how it happened, or why it happened. But I don't doubt that it happened. I just recognize that it is something I do not understand.

IMHO, just because I cannot understand or explain something doesn't mean it can't possibly be. I understand that some people are uncomfortable with that and I understand why: the unexplainable can be frightening. People, in general, are fearful of things they do not understand or that defy their understanding of how the world works. So, in an attempt to alleviate fear, they create plausible explanations. Or they just refuse to acknowledge that which doesn't "fit" with their view. People have done this throughout humankind, so I have no misguided belief that we will stop doing so now.

A healthy dose of skepticism is a good thing. As previously pointed about, skepticism does not necessarily mean absolute denial of something. I think it is good not to take things at face value. But I find it...unwise...to automatically assume that something can't possibly be, simply because it has not be explained or "proven" or simply because it falls outside of our current understanding of things.

I think that it is the belief in the possibility of the impossible that drives us forward. Otherwise, we'd still be rubbing sticks together and clubbing our food to death.

I too do not like the word "psychic". It conjures up the images of charlatans for me. I'm not actually sure what word I prefer for people who have a natural ability for this sort of thing. The kids I am around that seem to have something identify themselves as "indigos" and say that's part of the "being awake" package. They don't call it "psychic". It just seems to be part of who they are.
I started meditation when I was young, and have done different kinds. I tend to do more active meditation now than the quiet sort, but maybe I should do more of both. It hasn't always come as easily to me as it does now. I had to learn to tell myself there was a time for the thoughts that came but right now wasn't it, and to let them go and I'd deal with them later (and always make good on that later, so my subconscious won't pester me during meditation). Since I'm a visual thinker anyway, it's easy to visualize a void or a still pool. If I'm having trouble with intrusions or distractions I can always count my breaths to maintain or regain focus. So I can usually slip right into it if I have a bored moment, while my NT buddies will not bother with short sessions because they spend the first 5 minutes struggling with the conversation they had with the checkout lady in the grocery store before they can get their mind stilled. So short sessions seem to be a waste of effort for them, but easy for me.
Occassionally I'll struggle getting into it, but more often it's like slipping on/off a comfy pair of shoes.

again to anyone that claims to have even a smidgen of these abilities, go earn a million, even if you fail it can be tried again.

hey even if you dont personally want the money there sure are a lot of starving children that can use it!

in a way statistics would dictate that if there were people with these abilities at all, especially if they have been there throughout history(we are hundreds of times more people today)
then someone somewhere would have claimed one of these prices, there are multiple around the world.

Perhaps people gifted with the ability would also have integrity?

I'm not saying I believe that.

I'm just saying your argument does not hold water, especially since, for all we know, someone who has won the lottery, did do it in this fashion. They would be an absolute fool to admit to it, because certainly someone would abduct them and make them do it again.

And there is always the possibility that people are not making it up when they say they can't do it at will.

Again, I am not saying I believe that. I simply don't know.