You are all mechanical intellect-robots

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Dillogic
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02 Sep 2012, 6:53 am

According to Hans anyway.

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They do not learn the practicalities and social requirements of everyday life by spontaneously imitating adults, but have to learn those painstakingly through careful instruction; And this is all the more problematic because of their great resistance to instruction, and their dislike for practical and social as opposed to theoretical matters. It concerns skills like eating, bathing, getting dressed, or any type of bodily care. These things, most of which normal children learn unawarely and instinctively through imitation, can be learnt by them only cerebrally; They are mechanical intellect-robots. They have difficulty automating tasks, forming habits imposed onto them by others. They are very attached to their own or existing habits though. As a result, the practicalities of everyday life are learnt very late and with difficulty. Once having learnt a skill or formed a habit, their compulsive nature makes them stick to it rigidly. They tend to neglect bodily care, even as adults.


I thought it was funny.



Sidmor
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02 Sep 2012, 7:12 am

Neurotypical syndrome

Neurotypical Syndrome, from criteria for 299.80 Diabolic and Sadistic Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV)

(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple verbal behaviors such as literal language and honesty to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships with non-neurotypical people, need to bully non-neurotypical people and frequent inappropriate attempts to manipulate other people
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share own interests with other people (e.g. constant use of "small talk" indicating a lack of expression to other people of anything interesting)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity, believing that all other individuals ought to conform to the neurotypical’s way of thinking
(II) Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest, such as children, gossip or reality television, that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals, in particular wearing clothes that somebody else has told them is the latest fashion even though ugly or uncomfortable, and often will pay a lot of money just for a meaningless label.
(C) stereotyped and repetitive manners (e.g., ritualistic thanking of people for useless, unsolicited and unwanted gifts)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects, such as tags indicating what brand a product is
(E) a tendency to read grievous personal slights into innocuous remarks or gestures
(F) false modesty and a dislike for others who openly revel in their own greatness
(G) inappropriately tactile behaviour and lack of respect for the personal space of others
(H) constricted vocabulary

One of the most striking symptoms, likely to shock and alienate any healthy individual attempting to more than briefly communicate with them, is their acute averseness to honesty; they find it greatly insulting whenever people disrespect them so deeply as to actually tell the truth instead of manipulating them emotionally with blatantly obvious lies. Knowing how other NTs are the same in this regard, such behavior has become the standard among NTs, and they expect not only people of their kind, but others as well, to follow and show their appreciation of it.

Another highly visible symptom is that of their ritualistic activities, such as the rote utterance of phrases of little apparent meaning, particularly in social contexts. Typically, NTs involved in such “conversation” will exchange memorized stock phrases related to things such as the weather or the feelings of themselves and others, showing no interest whatsoever in the responses unless they do not fit the expected pattern, in which case the NTs will be offended by, or ironically, consider the person who made the comment mentally deficient. Other common ritualistic activities include, but are not limited to, excessive use of body language even when they have nothing to hide, incoherent shouting and monkey-like vocalizations, (particularly when inebriated in the presence of a pack of fellow NTs) and the obsessive-compulsive performing of strange gestures and uttering of nonsensical phrases, often as part of a religious practice.

Persons with NT, when compared to healthy individuals, commonly have a set of distinct intellectual impairments. Apart from a lower than average IQ (the median neurotypical IQ is 99.27), they show a lack of interest in technicalities, and are as a result remarkably ignorant. In addition, as they generally believe they know all that is of importance, they have few inclinations to search for new information.

Once a person with NT has made up his or her mind, a process typically involving very little ratiocination, cogitation, or deliberation, he or she likely refuses to acknowledge even the slightest possibility of being mistaken, no matter how much solid, logical evidence is presented. In contrast, they are for some reason quickly and easily convinced when exposed to emotional manipulation, the standard method of argumentation between NTs.

The disease affects as many as 9,600 out of 10,000 individuals, which is clearly alarming. The good news is that the number of incidences appear to be decreasing; several possible causes for this have been proposed. For example, nutritional improvements in the last few decades is said to be allowing these poor kids to develop proper neurology.

Neurotypical syndrome is characterized by externalized self-referencial modes of thought, where the individual subject continually models how others might judge her or his own actions, in attempt to maintain the desired outward appearance. Although wasting vast amounts of cognitive resources, the diseases is so widespread, many ill informed health care professionals consider it a normal, healthy state.



Ganondox
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02 Sep 2012, 7:37 am

I'm not, I can learn in more ways than by verbal programming.


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Verdandi
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02 Sep 2012, 7:40 am

Dillogic wrote:
According to Hans anyway.

Quote:
They do not learn the practicalities and social requirements of everyday life by spontaneously imitating adults, but have to learn those painstakingly through careful instruction; And this is all the more problematic because of their great resistance to instruction, and their dislike for practical and social as opposed to theoretical matters. It concerns skills like eating, bathing, getting dressed, or any type of bodily care. These things, most of which normal children learn unawarely and instinctively through imitation, can be learnt by them only cerebrally; They are mechanical intellect-robots. They have difficulty automating tasks, forming habits imposed onto them by others. They are very attached to their own or existing habits though. As a result, the practicalities of everyday life are learnt very late and with difficulty. Once having learnt a skill or formed a habit, their compulsive nature makes them stick to it rigidly. They tend to neglect bodily care, even as adults.


I thought it was funny.


Your avatar makes me want to say things like "They used to lick their eyes." Or maybe "Salarian liver was a delicacy in my cycle."

I have been accused of being an AI, so not surprised. I am pretty sure that my experience is much more organic than that, but this is what happens when researchers apply their neurotypical theory of mind to autistic behavior.



CyclopsSummers
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02 Sep 2012, 8:35 am

I can't access the PDF with the original article written by Asperger, so we can't verify whether 'mechanical intellect-robots' is a direct translation of Dr. Asperger's words by Cooijmans, or an interpretation.

Furthermore, I'd like to stress that it's believed by some that Hans Asperger himself had a form of autism; he was at the very least an introverted child who had trouble maintaining friendships. In other words, 'one of us'.

So, if he indeed described his research subjects of 'autistic psychopaths' as 'mechanical intellect-robots', please remember that this is the man many of you guys are proudly carrying the name of when you refer to yourself as 'Aspies'.


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TheSunAlsoRises
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02 Sep 2012, 8:43 am

When the Autism rate was 1 in 10000 and over 70 percent of the children were believed to be cognitively delayed, such language could be used liberally and unnoticed. I would think an astronomically higher Autism rate, proof of a much lower rate in cognitive delays, and the emergence of a large number of self-advocates would encourage awareness of a broad spectrum of people and sensitivity in attempting to describe aspects of some.

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b9
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02 Sep 2012, 9:24 am

Quote:
They do not learn the practicalities and social requirements of everyday life by spontaneously imitating adults
adults follow boring practices, and i have never been influenced by other people's behaviour. i do not know why. in my opinion, many social protocols are just formalities that i can not be bothered to think about.

Quote:
but have to learn those painstakingly through careful instruction; And this is all the more problematic because of their great resistance to instruction, and their dislike for practical and social as opposed to theoretical matters.

i learned what not to say through punishment rather than moral education. i never learned what is best to say to people, only what is worst to say to them. it is like learning to read music in a way. it is like learning how to play a piano. the rules are the rules, and i just have to practice them. but when i talk to someone else, it is never spontaneous (by ear). it is always a manuscripted social tune that i have learned.



Quote:
It concerns skills like eating, bathing, getting dressed, or any type of bodily care.

i eat what i want when i want, but i shower every night because i like to feel clean in bed. my sheets are white and clean, and i do not want to soil them


Quote:
These things, most of which normal children learn unawarely and instinctively through imitation, can be learnt by them only cerebrally; They are mechanical intellect-robots.

that is very true as far as i am concerned. i do not understand social protocols instinctively, and i have to investigate what they are by either interrogation or forced attention to a broken "rule", and i now have a predefined method of integrating with humans, and i am almost never spontaneous


Quote:
They have difficulty automating tasks, forming habits imposed onto them by others.


i behave in public with reference to my memory of the "rule book" rather than by intuition.
no one can impose a routine on me. i have to have a desire to perform the actions in my routines

my fractal has finished being compiled so good evening.



SteffiTheSmile
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02 Sep 2012, 9:44 am

I've always had my suspicions, just kidding :P.


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Hopper
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02 Sep 2012, 9:54 am

But why was I programmed to feel pain?



Callista
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02 Sep 2012, 9:55 am

Yeah, and I wanna talk to the guy who programmed my sensory-processing subroutines, because he must've been a total incompetent!


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Dillogic
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02 Sep 2012, 10:03 am

CyclopsSummers wrote:
So, if he indeed described his research subjects of 'autistic psychopaths' as 'mechanical intellect-robots', please remember that this is the man many of you guys are proudly carrying the name of when you refer to yourself as 'Aspies'.


I've read a good portion of the translated copy (Google Books had Uta's book up once for sampling), and it seems spot on in regards to what I read.

There's some gems in the original paper, like:

Hans actually says those with AS bring on the bullying themselves due to how they can appear to others, and it's understandable why they're bullied.

Lots of the observations are correct and "right", but he's not the saint people make him out to be.



b9
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02 Sep 2012, 10:11 am

Callista wrote:
Yeah, and I wanna talk to the guy who programmed my sensory-processing subroutines, because he must've been a total incompetent!


apparently dr smith corrupted my registers due to some sinister terrorist mission he was on, but when he got locked into the spacecraft, he had to experience my malfunctional behavior later that night. there was much damage as a result of my malfunction.

i would like to speak to someone above me soon or i will fret and stress to death. there are other things also going on that i will not detail for a few weeks.



Sora
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02 Sep 2012, 11:17 am

"Intelligenzautomaten" is what he wrote but the translation got something wrong:

Quote:
diese Menschen sind, kraß ausgedrückt, Intelligenzautomaten.


Which means that he wrote that calling autistic people Intelligenzautomaten due to their impairments in acquiring social (and other) skills intuitively like normal people is crude or exaggerated but seeing how he called us that anyway, serves whatever point he was trying to make about autism and intuitive social learning.

Another thing is that in his original paper, his mention of normal concerning normal/non-autistic children is in (German) quotation marks:

Quote:
Ein weiterer wichtiger Punkt: „normale“ Kinder erwerben sich die nötigen sozialen Gewohnheiten, ohne daß ihnen das meiste davon klar zu Bewußtsein kommt – sie lernen unbewußt, instinktiv.


(What's "normal" again? Well, I guess that why he put "normal" in quotation marks is open to personal interpretation but I think that he did it because "normal" is such a vague term that doesn't actually describe a real group.)

I think that "quote" from Asperger's actually consists of several quotes that were merged because the original paragraph goes on differently.

Edit no. 3trillion or so:

come to think of it, "Intelligenz-automaten" doesn't even translate into "mechanical intellect-robots".

We "automatise" stuff by active learning (thinking, paying attention, listening to explanations, trying things out) because both our ability to intuitively acquire social skills and our ability to learn adaptive skills by observation of implicit social rules are impaired in some way for some reason.

No mention of robots or mechas. I suspect that "normal" people would be "Instinkt-automaten" because that's how they work ideally.


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btbnnyr
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02 Sep 2012, 11:35 am

In doing boring snoring things like eating, dressing, and cleaning, I am a mechanical intellect robot. I have routines for these boring snoring things, and I follow them like a computer-programmed automaton, and this allows me to do them eezily breezily, so I can get them out of the way to go on to do moar moar moar interesting things like my special interests that are indeed moar moar moar theoretical in nature. Practical things are to be done as quickly as possible to get them out of the way, and social things are not to be done at all, so most of my time can be devoted to the theoretical things that truly interest me.

It seems to me that Hans Asperger was correct about my autistic mind. When I was little, mechanical intellect robot was a purrrfurrrt description of me. My following of compulsive rituals to do eberrything allowed me to ackshuly do those things and learn to do those things, and I learned how to become flexible over time, as I grew up. However, if I had not started with the rituals, then I would not have learned to do many things at all, many things not at all the spontaneous imitative way that I did not naturally use, so I would function far less well than I do now as an adult.

I am glad that iMother was smart enough to teach me to do eberrything cerebrally and not wait around for me to pick up on these things in a spontaneous imitative way.



oftenaloof
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02 Sep 2012, 12:24 pm

Callista wrote:
Yeah, and I wanna talk to the guy who programmed my sensory-processing subroutines, because he must've been a total incompetent!


I have some words for him/her too!



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02 Sep 2012, 4:36 pm

"...mechanical intellect-robots..." is offensive; I'm a cyborg! There's a difference... Cyborgs are part organic, whereas robots aren't.