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Delphiki
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05 Sep 2012, 11:22 pm

http://milford.patch.com/articles/do-yo ... nt_4609381


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Ganondox
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07 Sep 2012, 9:55 am

The poll was even worse. The most popular option actually believed there was a connection. I feel the world falling apart before my eyes.


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30 Sep 2012, 6:05 am

Yea... I have had the vaccine discussion many many many times...

Them: thermiserol has mercury in it! Mercury bad! Cause autism and brain damage!
Me: But it's it's in a compound... Not the same thing!
Them: Mercury!
Me: Ummm... carbon monoxide vs carbon dioxide?
Them: MER-CUR-Y!
Me: Wait...I know... nickel... is nickel poisonous?
Them: no... I have nickels in my pocket.
Me: No... um... nevermind... right... What about Nickel Nitrate?
Them: Nickel Night Rape?
Me: Close enough. Nickel isn't poisonous by itself... but in compound... as nickel nitrate, it will kill you... dead... do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars! See?
Them: but that's not mercury...

It only goes down hill from there... when citations are given... they just ignore them... it's worse than politics


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thewhitrbbit
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30 Sep 2012, 9:50 am

What really bothers me is that the guy who did all the "research" was publicly discredited and proven to be a lier.



ruveyn
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30 Sep 2012, 1:41 pm

Why should this be surprising. Do you know that 60 percent of Americans believe in angels?

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thewhitrbbit
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30 Sep 2012, 3:35 pm

I think that most of the objections are not religious based, but based on the vaccines cause autism research that was discredited recently.



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30 Sep 2012, 4:27 pm

Somebody on the comments section suggested that autistic children tend to have immune deficiencies. I have never met an autistic person suffering from an immunodeficiency. Of course, they exist, but it's not something that is part of autism. Part of me wants to know if they even have autistic kids. I mean, if a diet alleviates the symptoms and "cures" them, then maybe they never had autism to begin with.



Virginiarw
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07 Oct 2012, 3:41 pm

Okay, I am very confused on this.

Mercury is bad for you isn't it?

Can someone explain the science here to me?

I agree that people shouldn't be upset about autism. (Whether or not there is a link)

But in general, shouldn't people be concerned about their health in general?

Maybe somebody can explain this to me better?



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07 Oct 2012, 8:57 pm

Thiomersal, the antiseptic agent in question, contains an atom of mercury in each molecule of it.

The chemical is metabolized to ethyl mercury which is removed from the body via stool.

You are correct in saying mercury is not the best thing for you, and for that reason, it has been removed from childhood vaccines. These are single dose vaccines which are sterile from creation. The reason it is needed is because if a vaccine comes from a jar, the needle inserted into it contains some bacteria on it which must be killed or they will compromise the vaccine.

It wouldn't hurt to remove it from batch vaccines, if something can be found to make it safe.

Keep in mind, you do eat mercury if you consume fish of any kind. Some fish are considered especially dangerous for mercury.



Oodain
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08 Oct 2012, 7:23 am

in fact pregnant women should actively avoid eating fish more than once every other week in some areas.


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OliveOilMom
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08 Oct 2012, 10:49 am

When my kids were little I believed that vaccines caused autism. I was constantly worried when I got them a shot. At the time I didn't know I had it although I've never had a vaccine because of allergies.

I was posting on a FB thread about it not too long ago and the person was going on about how vaccines and autism are related and so I said I have AS but have never had a vaccine. I also answered them with a smart a** answer and the nutjob told me that the only proof I have of not having vaccines is my mothers word (why would she lie about that? I've been told all my life I've never had any and can't have them) and that because I made a sarcastic answer I can't have AS.


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08 Oct 2012, 2:13 pm

Oliveoilmom...

You can tell them that autism was classified in 1911 and thimerosal was invented in 1927... If it is the cause of the condition, how is it responsible for autism? Time travel? FURTHER... thimerosal is also in a LOT of personal care products... since elemental mercury is absorbed through the skin, if thimerosal is the culprit, why aren't the number's higher.

I hate people who think they understand chemistry...

H2o vs H2o2 One is necessary for life, the other will end it...

Elemental nickel is required for life, but nickel nitrate is one of the most toxic substances on the planet.


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kate123A
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09 Oct 2012, 3:08 am

Mind I have HFA/AS and I have immunodeficiency and so does my HFA son.

Friday I get my infusion.....and it really really sucks. I can't and neither can my kids get live vaccines because I'd just become a carrier for the actual virus.
I also have GI problems.



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09 Oct 2012, 5:24 am

Thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines in 2001, as a precautionary measure by the government. It is still present in flu vaccines but flu vaccines without thimerosal are available for those that would rather not take a flu shot with the preservative.

The research still being done at this point is addressed at possible side effects for subgroups of individuals on the spectrum that have co-morbid immune system deficiencies, per potential side effects that are evident for a relatively small number of people that receive vaccines.

The benefits of vaccines for people that are not immune compromised, outweigh the small risk of side effects, however there are a number of people that cannot receive vaccinations because of immune system deficiencies, some of who are on the spectrum. They rely on the herd immunity of others, to avoid the communicable diseases that vaccines protect against.

There is definitely a valid reason to continue research associated with those with immune system deficiencies and vaccines so individuals can be better identified with this type of deficiency to avoid potential dangers associated with vaccines.

As Kate123A identifies it is the virus in the vaccinations that is the danger for those with immune system deficiencies, not any preservative, including thimerosal. GI problems can definitely exacerbate difficulties in social communication associated with autism, even if only indirectly. This is the type of research that is ongoing, and extremely important to those individuals that face these difficulties.

There is about 2 million estimated cases of autism in the US. Those rare cases even at extremely small percentages, can still add up to a significant amount of people whose children with spectrum disorders have suffered ill effects from vaccines because of side effects, that their children were more vulnerable to, because of co-morbid conditions like immune system deficiency.

The internet provides these individuals a loud voice even in relatively small numbers to voice their opinions of real concern when their children got sick after taking a vaccination, and the symptoms of autism became more apparent or more severe, in part as a result of illness from side effects of the vaccination. Their personal concerns are real, as well as the stories they tell about their children, but it is understood as a rare phenomenon not a common one, but again those children's lives are as important as any others children's, which makes the research that is ongoing vital for children with similar vaccine associated problems.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Thimerosal/thimerosal_faqs.html



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09 Oct 2012, 6:27 am

I know that vaccines can cause high fevers in some kids, and that high fevers can cause brain damage at times, so I assume that some people eitehr confuse the brain damage for autism, or the fact that the kid just coincidentally started showng symptoms around the time they were vaccinated is what started that rumor.

I don't like most vaccines anyway. My oldest daughter was allergic to the pertussis and the doc advised to only do DT and not DPT for all the kids after that. I also don't do the chicken pox vaccine (they have all had chicken pox now anyway) nor the meningitis one. I don't like new vaccines that we don't know what problems they could cause years down the road. I also don't like how they are pushing the HPV vaccine on all teenage girls.


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aghogday
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09 Oct 2012, 4:09 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I know that vaccines can cause high fevers in some kids, and that high fevers can cause brain damage at times, so I assume that some people either confuse the brain damage for autism, or the fact that the kid just coincidentally started showing symptoms around the time they were vaccinated is what started that rumor


I agree that both of those points are possible scenarios.

Part of the issue, in general, with brain damage is that brain damage can result in autistic like behavioral impairments. The disorder is usually diagnosed by observing behavioral impairments without any clear indication of exactly what the underlying conditions are that lead to the behavioral impairments defined as an autism spectrum disorder. So it is effectively impossible for a diagnosing professional to determine how much the brain damage, when incurred, underlies the behavioral impairments that result in a diagnosis.

But, effectively for the most part, the diagnosis is the behavioral impairments not the underlying causes that could number in thousands of inter-related factors, including brain damage resulting from fevers that are caused by viral illnesses incurred as a rare side effect from a vaccine.

The link in the comments in the original article that linked a legal settlement for autism incurred from a vaccination in Italy was likely based on this type of correlation, where the brain damage was evident as well as behavioral impairments that resulted after the brain damage, that were observed to meet the diagnostic criteria required for an ASD.

If I remember correctly other court cases were settled with words like autistic like behaviors resulting from brain damage. It appears to be a matter in some cases of illness resulting from the side effects of vaccines, resulting brain damage that can be observed on a brain scan, the semantics of describing behavioral impairments, and professional judgement in the diagnostic procedure observing those behavioral impairments resulting in a diagnostic label. Bottom line though regardless of what the child's difficulties are labeled, the vaccines caused the brain damage, and a settlement was awarded, which unfortunately is part of the cost/benefit of vaccines necessary for herd immunity, where the government sets aside funds to compensate the rare cases of individuals whose children do succumb to serious side effects of vaccines.

The largest correlation per anecdotal reports of childhood illness associated with vaccines was with regressive autism. The most convincing research to date, that provides evidence that a viral illness associated with vaccines is not associated with a significant number of regressive autism cases that are understood to comprise about 30% of ASD's, is the research that showed abnormal brain growth specific to male children with regressive autism, that wasn't seen in other subgroups of autism.

But, that is also more evidence that the potential underlying factors of behavioral impairments observed and defined as autism, are extremely diverse among different subgroups of autism spectrum disorders. Even that evidence doesn't negate the potential that high fevers might contribute to the severity of the behavioral impairments that lead to a diagnosis in rare cases, and I remember reading that in some other older children it has been suggested that high fevers reduce the severity of behavioral impairments, so it is hard to eliminate some factors pro or con, per how they may impact behavioral impairments leading to a diagnosis.

I can understand why the parents whose children were negatively impacted by rare side effects of vaccines are upset, regardless of the impact in how this influenced their children's behavioral impairments, and their personal viewpoints should be respected, but it can be helpful if they are provided information of how diverse the underlying factors of autism may be across the spectrum.

I think one of the most important aspects of research is to provide the general public with information of the potential diversity of underlying factors associated with the development of behavioral impairments defined as ASD's, so they will gain a fuller understanding that avoiding vaccination is not avoiding the potential that a child will develop an autism spectrum disorder. It is in effect avoiding the same potential of rare side effects of vaccines that have always been a risk and are a risk with most medical treatments.

The most dangerous aspect now of avoiding vaccines, is that herd immunity has been lost in other countries, so the danger of contracting dangerous viral illness is at a much higher risk than the last few decades. There is no evidence that the vaccine scare has had any significant impact on herd immunity in the US, per reports from the CDC, as the US still maintain a 95% vaccination rate compared to the low to mid 80 percentile in some European countries, which appears to indicate that the US government does a good job of educating the general population that the benefits of vaccines, overall, greatly outweigh the risks.

Most states provide people the opportunity for people to apply for exemptions to vaccinate their children based on philosophical/religious reasons, but again even the 127% of a few hundred exemptions reported in the topic article, are not seriously impacting herd immunity, and may in part be a result of a tiny minority of people listening to government conspiracy theories purported by talk show hosts like Alex Jones, and his internet sites "Info Wars", and Prison Planet.

The highest reported increases in exemptions for vaccinations are actually in midwest conservative states, where Mr. Jones audience is at the highest concentrated levels, however that is just a correlation, and not direct evidence that he is actually having the impact, although he is the only radio show host that regularly features Andrew Wakefield on his show, in support of his government conspiracy theories associated with vaccines. Mr. Wakefield and his research has had a much bigger impact on vaccination rates in European countries, where that research was based and continues to be a much larger controversy there.

So to sum it up, many of the parents whose children have been directly impacted by illness associated with vaccines have valid personal concerns that I think should be respected, however it appears that the realistic concerns with vaccines for the general population are the same they have been in the past, except the number of vaccines suggested for usage in the general population are increasing, and with that increase comes a slight increase in the risk of side effects, per cumulative risk of exposure to a greater number of vaccines. The government has to address those concerns to appropriately modify procedures when possible to reduce the concerns, as well as more fully educating the public on the potential diversity of underlying factors associated with ASD's, since that appears to be the largest current concern among people of the anti-vaccination ideology.