Do Cultures that do not have property rights have Laws?
Gintis, Boyd that whole gaggle of folks. It is a very clean and elegant idea and testable. Do the Hadza, !Kung, Inuit, etc the so called egalitarian hunter-gatherers have laws?
Laws of course need a definition. I like
This is to separate law from norms (norms do not have proscribed punishments).
What I am looking for is observed examples not theoretical reasons why they can or can not have laws.
WTF makes you think that tribal societies do not have property rights?
Some jurisdictions do admit of the concept of "punitive damages," but these are few and far between.
If you commit fraud, the person that you defrauded sues you to get their money back. The state prosecutes you for being a criminal. The two processes are linked to the same fraud, the the proceedings have entirely different purposes.
In violation of what? If I made a mistake, my quarantine order is vacated. The patient is free to go and I go back to work.
Now, if I committed a professional misconduct in making that mistake, there may other proceedings before the College, but that is only peripherally linked to the patient's review of my quarantine order.
If I treat anyone without consent, I am exposed to prosecution for assault. But my point was that the law allows a parent to consent on behalf of a child. The law is being permissive in such a circumstance, not punitive.
No. If I refuse to present my passport, then I my request to enter the country is refused. That's not punishment. If a student applies to medical school and refuses to present his transcripts, he is not being punished when the school refuses his application. They are simply taking the decision that he has not proved that he is qualified. The same goes if I refuse to present my passport.
Law is predicated on enforceability, to be sure. But not all enforcement is sanction, and not all sanctions are penalties.
_________________
--James
How many Kibbutzim are currently in operation? And I am talking about real Kibbutzim, not these tourist traps in Israel where American Jewish tourists go for two weeks to pick fruit from the trees (for which privilege they pay thousands of dollars) so they can feel the "hardships" of the People.
When people did not have a pot to pee in Kibbutzim made sense. It made efficient use of the few available goods. Privately owned goods spend most of their time in a cupboard and are not put to any earthly use. Privately owned good promote the illusion of wealth derived from what is owned and not what is put to good use.
ruveyn
Fair point, I'm not aware of any that didn't either collapse, go down corporatist route or end up on permanent welfare.
Some jurisdictions do admit of the concept of "punitive damages," but these are few and far between.
If you commit fraud, the person that you defrauded sues you to get their money back. The state prosecutes you for being a criminal. The two processes are linked to the same fraud, the the proceedings have entirely different purposes.
In violation of what? If I made a mistake, my quarantine order is vacated. The patient is free to go and I go back to work.
Now, if I committed a professional misconduct in making that mistake, there may other proceedings before the College, but that is only peripherally linked to the patient's review of my quarantine order.
If I treat anyone without consent, I am exposed to prosecution for assault. But my point was that the law allows a parent to consent on behalf of a child. The law is being permissive in such a circumstance, not punitive.
No. If I refuse to present my passport, then I my request to enter the country is refused. That's not punishment. If a student applies to medical school and refuses to present his transcripts, he is not being punished when the school refuses his application. They are simply taking the decision that he has not proved that he is qualified. The same goes if I refuse to present my passport.
Law is predicated on enforceability, to be sure. But not all enforcement is sanction, and not all sanctions are penalties.
I will take the bolded part as agreement on fundamentals and the rest as a fussiness that I do not share and that does not interest me.
A real issue and one that you would be the perfect one to solve is Australian customary law really law? Use a definition that suits you better but contains enforcement.
_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??
http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/
Kjas
Veteran
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,059
Location: the place I'm from doesn't exist anymore
If one communitys property was taken by another, there was an enforcement of their law through reciprocity. That is, they actively pursued the property stolen, took it back, and punished the offenders (where possible the individuals responsible, if not the family or community responsible) in a manner that was deemed appropriate for and in proportion to the crime.
Simply because there was not personal property, does not mean that there was not property rights. Because property was communal in nature, if someone from another community stole from another, there would still be an enforcement of the law due to the transgression.
_________________
Diagnostic Tools and Resources for Women with AS: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt211004.html
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