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nominalist
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15 Sep 2012, 8:37 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I don't think he'll win anyway.


That is why Republican Party officials would like him to step down. However, under present laws, he can do what he likes.


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thewhitrbbit
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15 Sep 2012, 9:16 pm

Give it time in other countries. As some people said, it's getting very risky to speak bad about Muslims in some places. In America crtizing some minorities can be considered hate speech.

As for Akins, he's a moron. No one likes him. He will probably loose. That's how freedom works.

As for the public/private:

America has strong private property rights. If the owner of WP.net can set whatever rules for speech he wishes.

The government does not have that ability.

Hate speech laws may sound good in theory, but in reality, they represent a threat on fundamental freedom. When I think about all the freedoms we've had eroded, I still look at Westboro Baptist and say "Thank G-d they exist."

Restricting free speech starts with the most offensive speech possible, and that's WB.

There are solutions to hate speech. Speak louder, ignore them, vote them out.

More laws and restrictions are not the answer.

The public square must remain a marketplace of ideas, with citizens free to entertain them and decide for themselves.



nominalist
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15 Sep 2012, 11:00 pm

thewhitrbbit wrote:
That's how freedom works.


IMO, freedom is overrated.

Quote:
Consider the pettiness of men’s minds. They ask for that which injureth them, and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are, indeed, of those that are far astray. We find some men desiring liberty, and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of ignorance.

Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing. Know ye that the embodiment of liberty and its symbol is the animal. That which beseemeth man is submission unto such restraints as will protect him from his own ignorance, and guard him against the harm of the mischief-maker. Liberty causeth man to overstep the bounds of propriety, and to infringe on the dignity of his station. It debaseth him to the level of extreme depravity and wickedness.

Regard men as a flock of sheep that need a shepherd for their protection. This, verily, is the truth, the certain truth. We approve of liberty in certain circumstances, and refuse to sanction it in others. We, verily, are the All-Knowing.

Say: True liberty consisteth in man’s submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it. Were men to observe that which We have sent down unto them from the Heaven of Revelation, they would, of a certainty, attain unto perfect liberty. Happy is the man that hath apprehended the Purpose of God in whatever He hath revealed from the Heaven of His Will, that pervadeth all created things. Say: The liberty that profiteth you is to be found nowhere except in complete servitude unto God, the Eternal Truth. Whoso hath tasted of its sweetness will refuse to barter it for all the dominion of earth and heaven.

Baháʾuʾlláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Baháʾuʾlláh. Pages 335-336.


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Dox47
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16 Sep 2012, 1:42 am

F*ck hate speech laws, and f*ck the censorious douche-bag asshats that promote them.

That is all.


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16 Sep 2012, 3:45 pm

I find it somewhat disturbing that someone - in this day and age - would be in favor of expanding hate speech laws...

In my country (Denmark) we are currently considering whether to disband even laws against racism... not because the Danes are racists, as some would claim, but because the term has been expanded to include religious convictions... last time I checked, religion does not affect the melanin levels in one's skin...

Quote:
IMO, freedom is overrated.


Please elaborate...



Hopper
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16 Sep 2012, 3:50 pm

GGPViper wrote:
I find it somewhat disturbing that someone - in this day and age - would be in favor of expanding hate speech laws...

In my country (Denmark) we are currently considering whether to disband even laws against racism... not because the Danes are racists, as some would claim, but because the term has been expanded to include religious convictions... last time I checked, religion does not affect the melanin levels in one's skin...


Racism is not about skin colour. Not many racists go off on one about how they hate someone's pigmentation.



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16 Sep 2012, 4:23 pm

Hopper wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
I find it somewhat disturbing that someone - in this day and age - would be in favor of expanding hate speech laws...

In my country (Denmark) we are currently considering whether to disband even laws against racism... not because the Danes are racists, as some would claim, but because the term has been expanded to include religious convictions... last time I checked, religion does not affect the melanin levels in one's skin...


Racism is not about skin colour. Not many racists go off on one about how they hate someone's pigmentation.


I was being sarcastic, but I get your point. I will have to work on my Deadpan Snarker personality, as it is clearly ineffective...

My concern is that hate speech laws tend to expand to points where they prohibit valid criticism - For instance, why I am not allowed to criticize the fact (at least according to Islamic scripture) that Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6-7 years old and consummated the marriage when she was 9 year old? Or that he ordered the men of a defeated enemy tribe executed while distributing the women and children as slaves to his followers (battle of the trench)? Or that the he ordered anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion (or no religion) killed on the spot? - The fact is that I *am* allowed to make these statements, but then some US ambassador gets dragged out in to the street and is murdered by thugs...

When criticizing Muhammad for these acts I am most certainly guilty of hate speech, as I genuinely hate anyone with such a despicable mindset, but why should I be restricted in my opportunity for saying so?



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16 Sep 2012, 4:47 pm

thewhitrbbit wrote:
Give it time in other countries. As some people said, it's getting very risky to speak bad about Muslims in some places. In America crtizing some minorities can be considered hate speech.

As for Akins, he's a moron. No one likes him. He will probably loose. That's how freedom works.

As for the public/private:

America has strong private property rights. If the owner of WP.net can set whatever rules for speech he wishes.

The government does not have that ability.

Hate speech laws may sound good in theory, but in reality, they represent a threat on fundamental freedom. When I think about all the freedoms we've had eroded, I still look at Westboro Baptist and say "Thank G-d they exist."

Restricting free speech starts with the most offensive speech possible, and that's WB.

There are solutions to hate speech. Speak louder, ignore them, vote them out.

More laws and restrictions are not the answer.

The public square must remain a marketplace of ideas, with citizens free to entertain them and decide for themselves.


What's sad about Islam is they will never convince people they're a religion of peace if they're blowing themselves up in shopping malls and killing diplomats.

Sooner or later, defining marriage as between "a man and a woman" will be considered hate speech.

And these days, tolerance is measured by whether or not you adhere to the extreme left-wing definition of tolerance.


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GGPViper
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17 Sep 2012, 2:44 pm

nominalist wrote:
Underscore wrote:
Could you elaborate? :)


For instance, I don't think that this guy should be permitted to run for public office.


In that case, some sort of institution would have to be established to evaluate whether a candidate would be allowed to run for public office. Who would appoint the people working in this institution? The Legislative? The Executive? The Judiciary?

Or would you have it be an amendment to the constitution? How would this amendment be framed... and who would have the power to interpret it?

And what if a candidate committed an act which rendered him/her unsuitable for running for office, but then apologized and attempted to make amends? Who would decide if the apology/amends were adequate?

... But hey, I am arguing against someone who wants to deny a person the opportunity to run for office simply because he/she holds faulty scientific beliefs, and a person who wants to expand censorship laws...



ruveyn
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17 Sep 2012, 2:47 pm

nominalist wrote:
thewhitrbbit wrote:
That's how freedom works.


IMO, freedom is overrated.



Spoken like a true academic and practitioner of a pseudo science.

When the administration of the school you work forbids you to publish this are requires you to publish that will you meekly comply?

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AceOfSpades
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17 Sep 2012, 3:04 pm

nominalist wrote:
thewhitrbbit wrote:
That's how freedom works.


IMO, freedom is overrated.
And IMO moral authoritarianism is vastly underrated when it comes to its potential for setting dangerous precedents. That's what happens when the personal becomes political.

ruveyn wrote:
nominalist wrote:
thewhitrbbit wrote:
That's how freedom works.


IMO, freedom is overrated.



Spoken like a true academic and practitioner of a pseudo science.

When the administration of the school you work forbids you to publish this are requires you to publish that will you meekly comply?

ruveyn
Get off his nuts already.



nominalist
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17 Sep 2012, 4:25 pm

GGPViper wrote:
I find it somewhat disturbing that someone - in this day and age - would be in favor of expanding hate speech laws....


It is a big world. Not everyone is a libertarian.


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nominalist
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17 Sep 2012, 4:26 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
What's sad about Islam is they will never convince people they're a religion of peace if they're blowing themselves up in shopping malls and killing diplomats.


Islam is a religion, not a person. Muslims, like everyone else, are diverse.


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nominalist
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17 Sep 2012, 4:28 pm

GGPViper wrote:
In that case, some sort of institution would have to be established to evaluate whether a candidate would be allowed to run for public office. Who would appoint the people working in this institution? The Legislative? The Executive? The Judiciary?


I think that the political party should be able to kick him out and replace him with someone else. That is not possible under present regulations.


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17 Sep 2012, 4:38 pm

ruveyn wrote:
nominalist wrote:
thewhitrbbit wrote:
That's how freedom works.


IMO, freedom is overrated.



Spoken like a true academic and practitioner of a pseudo science.

When the administration of the school you work forbids you to publish this are requires you to publish that will you meekly comply?

ruveyn


What the h? What are you talking about? Don't you see how redicilous you are when you're sitting in front of a computer talking down to an entire field of study and academia without giving any sensible reason for it? Aren't you embarassed?



ruveyn
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17 Sep 2012, 5:29 pm

Underscore wrote:

What the h? What are you talking about? Don't you see how redicilous you are when you're sitting in front of a computer talking down to an entire field of study and academia without giving any sensible reason for it? Aren't you embarassed?


Sociology is not a genuine science. Its hypothesis are generally untestable or falsifiable in principle That is Popper's demarcation between a science and a non-science. Physics is a science. Sociology is not.

ruveyn