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Hopetobe
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14 Sep 2012, 7:46 am

A psychologist concluded I have an "organic personality disorder". Does autism or asperger belong to organic personality disorders?



CrystalStars
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14 Sep 2012, 8:36 am

"Organic personality disorder?" A term that's fallen out of use, no doubt.


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naturalplastic
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14 Sep 2012, 10:36 am

Never heard of "organic personality disorder".

Whatever it is- its prolly more wholesome than the chemically grown kind!



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14 Sep 2012, 10:52 am

Hmmm....I'm afraid I'm not even sure what an organic personality disorder is. To Google I must go!


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14 Sep 2012, 10:55 am

How old is this term, exactly? I'd be hesitant to go back to a psychologist to give such a diagnosis. I read about it after my post, and still have no idea what it is.


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14 Sep 2012, 11:54 am

Just now goggled it.

Very interesting.


It IS(as someone above suggested) an archaic and outdated term in psychiatry - a kind of catch all for unrelated disorders.

Basically it means that the patient has a disorder caused by physical brain damage (hense the word 'organic'- the brain organ itsself being damaged)- like head trauma, or high fever, or what have you. As opposed to- i dont know what- seeing something nasty in the woodshed when you were a kid.

Basically- if you werent schzophrenic, werent manic, werent depressive, then you were under the umbrella of "organic brain disorder".

Parkinson disease, huntingtons chorea, -things like that were lumped into that.

Dont know if the op had somekind of childhood head trauma or childhood disease. But that might be what the doc is talking about.

Its both a vague term, and based the outdated idea that some mental illness is "organic" and some of it is not "organic".

We now know that pschizophrenia (for example) is also "organic" and can be treated with pills. The relationship between the software and the hardware of the brain isnt that simple a dichotomy.

So it sounds like your doctor has been living under a rock for several decades, and you should get a second or fourth opinions.

Is autism/aspergers an "organic" brain disorder?
Its not caused by scarlet fever or being beaned on the head.
But you are born with it. You cant be cured by talk therapy (or by anything else). So in that sense it could be said to be an "organic" disorder.



Hopetobe
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14 Sep 2012, 3:57 pm

I had high fevers as a young child. The psychologist said it could be caused by it or by a lack of oxygen during my birth.

If my "difference" was caused by brain damage, than I´m very sad and disappointed. :( I thought I could be an aspie.

Also, the term "personality disorder" makes me depressed. How can you be proud of your personality when it has a disorder? Disorder means it´s messed up. :cry:



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14 Sep 2012, 5:32 pm

My opinion:
Find a new psychologyst/psychiatrist and get professionally diagnosed.


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naturalplastic
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14 Sep 2012, 5:33 pm

I hear you.

Thats a tough thing to hear from a doctor.

But is a "disorder" really any worse than a "syndrome"?

Aspies, like myself, were born wired differently wereas with you it was something that happened shortly after birth. It doesnt really make much difference. Either way you would have to struggle with it.



Hopetobe
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14 Sep 2012, 5:47 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
I hear you.

Thats a tough thing to hear from a doctor.

But is a "disorder" really any worse than a "syndrome"?

Aspies, like myself, were born wired differently wereas with you it was something that happened shortly after birth. It doesnt really make much difference. Either way you would have to struggle with it.

But aspies are proud of who they are, they even have pride parades like homosexuals. Some even say it´s not a disorder, just difference. Something unique. Therefore I wish I was an aspie, then would mean I´m unique. No one says people with organic personality disorder are unique. No one fights for rights of such people, organize pride parades for them etc.



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14 Sep 2012, 7:58 pm

Hopetobe wrote:
I had high fevers as a young child. The psychologist said it could be caused by it or by a lack of oxygen during my birth.

If my "difference" was caused by brain damage, than I´m very sad and disappointed. :( I thought I could be an aspie.

I doubt there's a truly accurate way to differentiate whether your difference is due to fever/oxygen deprivation, or to developmental reasons ("normal ASD"). You could have brain damage, but it could have nothing to do with any autistic traits you have.

I'd bet the shrink is just guessing, because it makes for an easy story/explanation and there's no way for him to be proven wrong (and from his POV there's likely no major harm done if he is wrong).

Quote:
Also, the term "personality disorder" makes me depressed. How can you be proud of your personality when it has a disorder? Disorder means it´s messed up. :cry:

Well, the book that autism and Asperger's are described in is the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders," so they are disorders. Personally, I try not to take diagnostic labels too literally. I have "cognitive disorder," but that's just the medical world's label for something that is bigger and more complicated (and not 100% bad) than what the medical world cares to know about. (They like to know about things they can fix.)



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14 Sep 2012, 11:15 pm

Hope, you are unique no matter what: You are the *only* you there is. Nobody else can be you, so that's special.
What makes you unique?
What is right (not personality disordered) about you?
I think there is probably a lot more right with you than there is wrong with you, and you can be proud of that...until you get a 2nd opinion. ;)

I had a doctor say something similar to me not very long ago. I had trouble finding it and found the vagueness irritating. I've had head injuries and one or two concussions did have some definite lingering effects, but I had autistic traits before I ever ran high fevers or bumped my noggin. It's surely possible to have both. And I've realized some of my concussions were actually related to being on the spectrum...not being aware of my surroundings, being hyperfocused, not communicating properly, and trusting untrustworthy people with my safety.
Sometimes my incorrect diagnosis were probably due to being on the spectrum too. I am at my worst in a new place with a new person under stress, and I always find later that I left out things that might've been important. Maybe a whole lot of things, and it's because I'm having trouble communicating, or got a migraine talking. Is that because of an organic brain disease/brain injury...or because I didn't start to speak until I was around 2ish...*after* I ran an extremely high fever that my mom swears made me "wake up" and start interacting with the world more?
I have other labels and I don't really care so much whether or not they are to be proud of, as long as I see the reason why they are correct and an accurate description of me or my problem. Sometimes these things are obvious, like images on an MRI, and sometimes they are not.
But it seems like if you settle for what you feel is an incorrect diagnosis, then the problems with other doctors can snowball from there.



Hopetobe wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
I hear you.

Thats a tough thing to hear from a doctor.

But is a "disorder" really any worse than a "syndrome"?

Aspies, like myself, were born wired differently wereas with you it was something that happened shortly after birth. It doesnt really make much difference. Either way you would have to struggle with it.

But aspies are proud of who they are, they even have pride parades like homosexuals. Some even say it´s not a disorder, just difference. Something unique. Therefore I wish I was an aspie, then would mean I´m unique. No one says people with organic personality disorder are unique. No one fights for rights of such people, organize pride parades for them etc.



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15 Sep 2012, 12:52 am

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
I'd bet the shrink is just guessing, because it makes for an easy story/explanation and there's no way for him to be proven wrong (and from his POV there's likely no major harm done if he is wrong).


Of course he is of have you toled him that you were totally different befor?
That's why my opinion is: change the shrink and get professionally checed and don't take it too seriously what a single shrink says.
Very often they are just personally opinions and nothing more.

My old shrink even thought that I have Borderline.
But that was because she worked in that hospital where a trauma I have occoured and I freaked out every time I came because it remindet me on the trauma.
Now I know, that I have mild PTSD with symptoms of DESNOS or complex PTSD, what is that I couldn't leave there and have an ambivalent behaviour to the "agressor". But she, just seeing my behaviour there and ignoring the fact how I behaved befor came, of course, ot another opinion. I first had to leave this hospital that my behaviour got more "normal" and so on and that took me nearly two years (I stayed there ambulant after the trauma).
So sometimes it is hard to tell and a second optionion is necessary.

By the way people with ASD have more often trouble by birth. I even heared the theory that it is BECAUSE of the autism, because those children very often don't know instinctly what to do at birth.


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phyrehawke
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15 Sep 2012, 2:41 am

I don't mean to sidetrack the post but need a minute of clarification.
Raziel, I have PTSD too but I am not familiar with DESNOS...what is that?
Thank you for being so open about all this.



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15 Sep 2012, 5:18 am

phyrehawke wrote:
Raziel, I have PTSD too but I am not familiar with DESNOS...what is that?


DESNOS => Disorder of Extreme Stress Not Otherwise Stated.
So far I'm informed it's a bit like complex PTSD and often it sayed that those are pretty much the same, but it's not that easy. DESNOS simply means that there are symptoms you have since the trauma, but are not in the classic PTSD criateria.
The problem I have personally with the term "complex PTSD" is, that it might fit for many individuals, but not for me. complex PTSD is the concept that there is PTSD after one single trauma and complex PTSD, far more complex like this with the PTSD symptoms and whole range of other symptoms, usually after several traumas in childhood or simmilar.
But I have after two years just mild PTSD left, but including symptoms that a simmilar to stockholm-syndrome, so some identification with the agressor. That's even typical for people who were ceptured or locked away when it was traumatic for them. I was locked away for two weeks in the locked ward and they didn't realice that I freak out so much, because I have claustrophobia and so it was very traumatic for me. But those symptoms are not in the PTSD criteria. So DESNOS fits me best I guess.
I also have the strong tendency to repeat parts of the trauma again and again, but that's also PTSD. DESNOS is just, what's "more than" classical PTSD, but still not fitting into complex PTSD or is in some other way different.
DESNOS is pretty much like PDD-NOS if you will. It can mean pretty much everything...! :wink:

He explains PTSD (and DESNOS) very well:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHH18iK3JXY[/youtube]

If you have more questions to it, you can write me a PN. :D


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