Interview questions ...translated NT language!

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Issit
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20 Sep 2012, 3:56 pm

I wish there would be translator for all they say like this one:

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/jo ... stions.htm

:idea:



cubedemon6073
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20 Sep 2012, 4:29 pm

Issit wrote:
I wish there would be translator for all they say like this one:

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/jo ... stions.htm

:idea:


It seems like it is playing a complex game of chess and it seems like the interviewer and the interviewee has to outflank each other in some kind of manipulative and doublespeak game. Do any of us really stand a chance with this whatsoever? I have another question. If all of this is as natural as night and day to NTs then why does this stuff have to be posted and why do people have to practice coming up with answers? To me, it seems like it is a song and dance.



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20 Sep 2012, 4:49 pm

Isn't asking the children one illegal? I read it was or is that only asking "do you have children?"

I found out that parents are more likely to not get hired due to they may arrive late to work or taking time off due to a sick child or a school thing or doctor's appointment. They want someone who is more reliable.


I have found out that interviews are so complicated and no wonder many of us fail them. We are too literal and too honest and we don't pick up on hidden meanings. I wonder if NTs struggle with these things too or do they know on their own?


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20 Sep 2012, 5:06 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
It seems like it is playing a complex game of chess and it seems like the interviewer and the interviewee has to outflank each other in some kind of manipulative and doublespeak game. Do any of us really stand a chance with this whatsoever?


This is why I quit the game and decided to go freelance / self-employed...heh. It's not as easy to make money, but I still prefer it.



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20 Sep 2012, 5:18 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
I have another question. If all of this is as natural as night and day to NTs then why does this stuff have to be posted and why do people have to practice coming up with answers? To me, it seems like it is a song and dance.


I totally agree. And I say this as an inbetweener NT/Aspie person. I [think I] can tell pretty well what's expected of interview questions, but I can't stand the hard sell and certainly don't want to lie.

I went to an interview recently within the institution where I currently work which meant I already knew 2 out of 3 people on the panel. The temptation to say "lets cut to the chase and Iet me just tell you exactly what I can and can't offer you..." was huge. But I guess everyone would want to do this if they could. The problem is that a lot of people don't have a problem over selling themselves and might also openly lie to get the job. I reckon it's only because of this that the whole song and dance routine necessarily exists. It's very unfair on poor honest and unsuspecting people like most Aspies.


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eric76
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20 Sep 2012, 5:23 pm

Five of my seven jobs since I graduated from college didn't have job interviews at all.

The first was with a company formed by my former boss at the previous company. The second was when someone started a new company and I was the first employee. The third was a family business. The fourth and fifth were teaching at universities/colleges.



Last edited by eric76 on 20 Sep 2012, 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cubedemon6073
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20 Sep 2012, 5:42 pm

Morningstar wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
It seems like it is playing a complex game of chess and it seems like the interviewer and the interviewee has to outflank each other in some kind of manipulative and doublespeak game. Do any of us really stand a chance with this whatsoever?


This is why I quit the game and decided to go freelance / self-employed...heh. It's not as easy to make money, but I still prefer it.


It is what I want to do as well if I had better executive functioning.



cubedemon6073
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20 Sep 2012, 6:00 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Isn't asking the children one illegal? I read it was or is that only asking "do you have children?"

I found out that parents are more likely to not get hired due to they may arrive late to work or taking time off due to a sick child or a school thing or doctor's appointment. They want someone who is more reliable.


I have found out that interviews are so complicated and no wonder many of us fail them. We are too literal and too honest and we don't pick up on hidden meanings. I wonder if NTs struggle with these things too or do they know on their own?


Well, we have occupy wall street and if NTs were not struggling with these things then I have to ask why are these posted whatsoever? Why wouldn't NTs pick up on these things either? I may be wrong but I think the unemployment rate is 12%. This only counts the documented cases who I believe are on unemployment. It does not count those who quit looking and those who are not employed. The figure may be higher.

You're right it is very complicated. The problem is it is an employer's market. The supply of candidates is very high. This is why they do what they do. I think this involves more than just those on the spectrum. I think this is an epidemic. I do not think society is going to help the unemployed whatsoever.

Personally, I think we need solutions. When I mean we I mean NTs as well. I think OWS did work but to a certain extent. We need things that are concrete. I do believe we are too honest and too literal as well. I am going to talk to my father but I am thinking of creating a forum with a similar structure to wrongplanet that is dedicated to discussing unemployment issues and solutions to making a living someway, somehow. Eventually, I want to have real life meetings to come up with solutions using brainstorming and other methods.



Issit
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21 Sep 2012, 5:22 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Issit wrote:
I wish there would be translator for all they say like this one:

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/jo ... stions.htm

:idea:


It seems like it is playing a complex game of chess and it seems like the interviewer and the interviewee has to outflank each other in some kind of manipulative and doublespeak game. Do any of us really stand a chance with this whatsoever? I have another question. If all of this is as natural as night and day to NTs then why does this stuff have to be posted and why do people have to practice coming up with answers? To me, it seems like it is a song and dance.

I believe many do understand the rules of the game.
But the explanation is for the ones who do not, really.

Erm, like us.
Or more naive and inexperienced in social games NTs.



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21 Sep 2012, 6:37 am

when i went for the army interviews i practically acted the whole thing, i knew if i let my guard down that i wouldnt get in. its all an act.



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21 Sep 2012, 7:15 am

I have a question for everyone. Why do I feel such revulsion and anger at this? In addition, I feel hardcore contempt for this.

I'm going to be honest with everyone here. The more I learn about how our country(USA) works the more antipathy I feel towards my own nation. I can't literally stand what this country is now and what it is becoming with its deceptions, manipulations, and double speak. Is any other country better or is it going to be the same nonsense?



cubedemon6073
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21 Sep 2012, 7:36 am

Issit wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Issit wrote:
I wish there would be translator for all they say like this one:

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/jo ... stions.htm

:idea:


It seems like it is playing a complex game of chess and it seems like the interviewer and the interviewee has to outflank each other in some kind of manipulative and doublespeak game. Do any of us really stand a chance with this whatsoever? I have another question. If all of this is as natural as night and day to NTs then why does this stuff have to be posted and why do people have to practice coming up with answers? To me, it seems like it is a song and dance.

I believe many do understand the rules of the game.
But the explanation is for the ones who do not, really.

Erm, like us.
Or more naive and inexperienced in social games NTs.


What I am saying is if these things are having to be posted, there are a lot of books on this, and articles like this are everywhere then more than likely there are many people who do not understand the rules of the game as well. I believe many do like you say but many do not as well. In the laws of economics where there is a big enough demand there will be a supply.



Janissy
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21 Sep 2012, 8:51 am

Issit wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Issit wrote:
I wish there would be translator for all they say like this one:

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/jo ... stions.htm

:idea:


It seems like it is playing a complex game of chess and it seems like the interviewer and the interviewee has to outflank each other in some kind of manipulative and doublespeak game. Do any of us really stand a chance with this whatsoever? I have another question. If all of this is as natural as night and day to NTs then why does this stuff have to be posted and why do people have to practice coming up with answers? To me, it seems like it is a song and dance.

I believe many do understand the rules of the game.
But the explanation is for the ones who do not, really.

Erm, like us.
Or more naive and inexperienced in social games NTs.


There are many, many social games and competency in one arena won't automatically translate to another. It may actually be detrimental. Cubedemon is right to suspect that the popularity of this kind of information is because so many people don't know it, even if they aren't naive and are very competent at specific social games. Familiarity with the social conventions of a backyard barbecue or how to make small talk with co-workers won't give an NT the "correct" anwers to those interview questions. What it will do is make those "correct" answers easier to implement because there won't anywhere near as much underlying intense anxiety as an interviewee with AS would have. There is also a social module that those answers can be plugged into.

This is a terrible job market, but I think there is some hope on the horizon for people with specialized skills:

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/jobs-ca ... px#slide=1

There are some jobs where employers are having a hard time finding qualified candidates, such as the skilled trades (such as electrician)- see linked article above for a list. What is missing isn't people skills, it's technical skills. People with AS will have a horrible time acing an interview that asks oblique questions with an agenda such as "tell me your biggest weakness". But if the question is "do you know how to use a----(piece of obscure technical equipment)?" then there is a much better chance of having AS obscure expertise override social difficulties.



Issit
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21 Sep 2012, 4:54 pm

Ok, I understand now beter what you were saying, Cubedemon, and agree.


Thank you for the explanation, Janissy, I appreciate that.


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21 Sep 2012, 6:43 pm

What Janissy said. It is a struggle for NTs, too and it can be a game, but I don't like perpetuating the mindset that it has to be a game. It all depends on the interviewer and interviewee. I think a lot of this advice assumes that the interviewer is an experienced HR person - almost a "professional interviewer". Such people are indeed very hard for us to deal with - HR people tend to be at the extreme end of NT! That won't always be the case, though, especially in smaller companies. If you interview with the manager you'd be reporting to they're less likely to play games. I'm pretty sure they don't like games either (well, most of them). They just want to find a good candidate and it's really hard for them, too.

With that in mind, I wouldn't go into an interview with the mind set of "what are the right moves to play", but something more like "how can I present myself in a good light and highlight my strengths, while not saying anything wrong". For example, I wouldn't try a mental trick like Issit posted above. Maybe it will work (if you pull it off well) or maybe they will read something else into it and decide that the position of your desk is somehow an important factor for you in choosing a job! (Even if it is I wouldn't highlight that at an interview.)

More generally, with a game-playing mindset people often avoid actually answering the questions and the interviewers are not so stupid as to miss that. A common example of this is the weakness question. The linked page gives good advice on how to answer it. Unfortunately, many others suggest avoiding the answer one way or another, eg. talking about a past weakness you've corrected or talking about a strength that could be a weakness if taken to excess. If you do that you're not fooling anyone! Another example is the salary question. This is where I disagree with that site. When I asked "how much do you want?" you must give a number. Anything else is a non-answer and it will only frustrate the interviewer and indicate weakness or lack of preparation on your part.



cubedemon6073
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22 Sep 2012, 8:19 am

FMX wrote:
What Janissy said. It is a struggle for NTs, too and it can be a game, but I don't like perpetuating the mindset that it has to be a game. It all depends on the interviewer and interviewee. I think a lot of this advice assumes that the interviewer is an experienced HR person - almost a "professional interviewer". Such people are indeed very hard for us to deal with - HR people tend to be at the extreme end of NT! That won't always be the case, though, especially in smaller companies. If you interview with the manager you'd be reporting to they're less likely to play games. I'm pretty sure they don't like games either (well, most of them). They just want to find a good candidate and it's really hard for them, too.

With that in mind, I wouldn't go into an interview with the mind set of "what are the right moves to play", but something more like "how can I present myself in a good light and highlight my strengths, while not saying anything wrong". For example, I wouldn't try a mental trick like Issit posted above. Maybe it will work (if you pull it off well) or maybe they will read something else into it and decide that the position of your desk is somehow an important factor for you in choosing a job! (Even if it is I wouldn't highlight that at an interview.)

More generally, with a game-playing mindset people often avoid actually answering the questions and the interviewers are not so stupid as to miss that. A common example of this is the weakness question. The linked page gives good advice on how to answer it. Unfortunately, many others suggest avoiding the answer one way or another, eg. talking about a past weakness you've corrected or talking about a strength that could be a weakness if taken to excess. If you do that you're not fooling anyone! Another example is the salary question. This is where I disagree with that site. When I asked "how much do you want?" you must give a number. Anything else is a non-answer and it will only frustrate the interviewer and indicate weakness or lack of preparation on your part.


Herein lies the problem. All of this is a matter of subjectivity, interpretation and opinion. I could think I'm presenting myself in a good light and highlighting my strengths but it could come across as something else. They may consider what I think are strengths actually are weaknesses in their minds. FMX, we're all being expected to play another man's game that we can't truthfully play. When I mean all I don't mean just ASDs.

Those who have been unemployed and chronically for a long time have been trying to figure it out for a long time. Those whom these books are catered to I have a question. Have they been able to figure out how to obtain employment at all? It is because we'e all going by a wrong premise and that is all people can practice themselves to employment. This is a quote and attitude by employers which states "Skills can be taught, personality is forever."

From what I gather by people say online, the results of their trying to obtain employment and my own experiences it is you either got it or you don't. You have the personality they desire or you do not. It is very black and white. They want a certain type of personality in the workplace. You either have this personality type or not. Their tests are very sophisticated. More than likely you will not beat them and even if you do and manage to get past the interview I don't believe certain personality types will last that long anyway.

Those with the personality types the employers want will answer the questions in the way the employers desire naturally. Everyone is telling you to press on and continue to play this game without truthfully realizing the implications of this quote. What I am saying based upon the facts is don't play. Don't apply, don't try to learn to interview and don't try to figure them out. Don't try to fight them either. If you notice a pattern all of this has failed you. I'm speaking to the unemployed. I think it is time for those AS and NT alike to who are chronically unemployed need to try something else completely. I think it is time to metaphorically put our heads together and come up with something else to not only survive but thrive.

My advice to parents is this. Save your children an inheritence that they can live onespecially an introverted child. They will love you forever and thank you forever. If you're able to help other parents do the same.