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Australia
Snowy Owl
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25 Sep 2012, 8:24 am

CrystalStars wrote:
My point was that feeling "all negative" about your flaws won't change a thing. Everybody has them, and at least accepting that you're going to have some makes things easier. If an individual refuses to accept him/herself, then they can always aim to better themselves instead.


oh i got no flaws. :D



CrystalStars
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25 Sep 2012, 8:50 am

Australia wrote:
CrystalStars wrote:
My point was that feeling "all negative" about your flaws won't change a thing. Everybody has them, and at least accepting that you're going to have some makes things easier. If an individual refuses to accept him/herself, then they can always aim to better themselves instead.


oh i got no flaws. :D

Liar! Having no flaws (as a human being) is, in fact, a flaw.


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MeloJag
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25 Sep 2012, 10:36 am

CrystalStars wrote:
Australia wrote:
CrystalStars wrote:
My point was that feeling "all negative" about your flaws won't change a thing. Everybody has them, and at least accepting that you're going to have some makes things easier. If an individual refuses to accept him/herself, then they can always aim to better themselves instead.


oh i got no flaws. :D

Liar! Having no flaws (as a human being) is, in fact, a flaw.


So very true, a perfect human would be a boring human



coolbreezy
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25 Sep 2012, 11:04 am

i cant acccept myself, i still struggle to this very day



Sweetleaf
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25 Sep 2012, 11:12 am

hmm I am currently trying to accept that I'm like more f***** in the head than I thought(its too much to try and explain in this thread), without feeling too bad about myself. I have accepted I am different than neurotypicals, just don't know I've accepted 'myself' yet.



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25 Sep 2012, 12:08 pm

FlintsDoorknob wrote:
Stop thinking yourself as different from the rest of humanity. Everyone is as weird as you are. They are just weird in different ways.


That is a good way of looking at it, especially if you're on the very mild end of the spectrum, like me. I do try to keep telling myself that nobody is perfect, and that being NT does not mean you are going to live a brilliantly stress-free life, with the perfect job, the perfect marriage, the perfect home, wonderful friends that are so reliable, and everything else being so luxurious for you. Maybe if you're an MP, or just a lucky person, but generally being NT does not mean that.

Reading things on sites like WP like ''are Aspies a different breed of people?'' doesn't help those who are trying to accept themselves, especially if they desire friendships and have gone a long way to fit in. Someone here has even once put stuff like ''nobody's really going to like you for as long as you live because your social skills will always be too poor, no matter how much you think you're normal enough to fit in...'', and I think that is the last thing an Aspie wants to hear, then people wonder why some of us find it hard to accept ourselves when we read things like that. That's the thing about having low self-esteem - I tend to believe every bad thing that is said about me.


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MakaylaTheAspie
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25 Sep 2012, 12:16 pm

Well, I was born this way, so it's no use moping over it. I'd rather be enjoying my life than being depressed over something I can't help.


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SpiritBlooms
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25 Sep 2012, 12:19 pm

FlintsDoorknob wrote:
Stop thinking yourself as different from the rest of humanity. Everyone is as weird as you are. They are just weird in different ways.

I agree with this. I had no idea what AS was until just a few years ago. I have felt that I was an oddball all my life. But there are lots of people who also feel that way who aren't Aspies.

What has been most difficult for me, all my life, is that I care too much about what others think, I craved approval and acceptance, when I needed instead to be finding myself and accepting myself. For me wanting to be approved is likely at least in part a result of my Aspie dad being hypercritical. I so wanted his approval as a child, and yet nothing I did was good enough. He couldn't help it, he was unaware of his affect on me in this respect, I'm not blaming him, just trying to be more aware of where this came from, and also to be more aware of how what I say affects others.

I find that in being more accepting of others I am finding it a lot easier to be more accepting of myself. I love discovering how each of us is unique, instead of always looking for ways to be more like everyone else and to be approved of. If I approve of myself, that's what really counts. After all, I have to live and sleep with myself every day. That's a lot easier with self-acceptance.

I'm rediscovering things I loved to do and still love that I had given up as a young person because those activities weren't valued by others. It's a revelation to rediscover these things, and to enjoy them now as I never did before.



Joe90
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25 Sep 2012, 12:40 pm

I've always been afraid of what others think of me too. It makes it worse when you're the type of Aspie who gets obsessed with certain people, and also if you're from a family who are all NTs and I mean all NTs (no-one with any other differences other than AS, just all seem average people). It sometimes make you build up a desire to want to fit in too and be accepted, just like your loved ones are, and also the people that you are obsessed with.

I'm obsessed with bus-drivers, and they all seem to be NTs and also seem quite confident (I talk to a few). There's one I'm not sure about, she seems a bit strange at first, but I don't like to ask, and even if she did have some sort of neurological difference, she is still very chatty and knows how to speak to passengers without clamming up like I would. I often look at the one I have a crush on and think, ''oh why can't I be sociable like him? I can't imagine him being 'put in his place' by other people when he unintentionally breaks a few social rules, because he's accepted and is naturally social.'' I know nobody's perfect just like I said earlier, but it'd still be nice to live a life where you are socially accepted and able to make friends properly, and your weird ways get ignored or socially accepted too.

Also with my family, my mum always claims that she's always been shy and unable to fit in, but she also said that she went out an awful lot when she was a teenager, and she had such an interesting social life with lots of laughs and things to remember, and has old diaries where she wrote all what she did down, so that is proof that she wasn't just exaggerating. Even my mum's sister, who (I'm certain) has a lot of Aspie traits, still used to be out and about when she was a teenager, hanging out in the evenings with boyfriends around the town and dressing up to go out dancing with groups of people when she got over 18. Plus she enjoyed it too. Could you ever see me even having the chance to do that, and if so, enjoying it and fitting in? No. Even when I did go up the town with 2 ''friends'' after school when I was 15, they deserted me and made out they thought I was with them, but I knew that wasn't true.

Maybe social lives were easier in the 70s and 80s? Maybe people have gotten even more fussy with who their friends are now, or maybe social rules have changed now, which means you've got to be a certain person to be able to be accepted in big crowds in big noisy social environments?


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Last edited by Joe90 on 25 Sep 2012, 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Buttoneater
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25 Sep 2012, 12:40 pm

I don't think there's anything about myself that I can't change with enough effort (or by knowing the right tricks). Well, I guess I can't make myself taller, but I'm already tall so that's alright. Yeah, whether you believe "I can change" or "I can't change", you're right.

edit: Just last night I was having an argument with my dad, and at one point I said "Damn it, look me in the eyes when I'm talking to you! Staring at the floor is rude!", and he told me he couldn't, it made him too uncomfortable. I realized then that I was now less autistic than him, something that wasn't the case when I was a child, or even a few years ago.

edit: Heh, me saying that helped me win the argument too, since we were arguing about whether a highly unorthodox treatment I use helps me.



Last edited by Buttoneater on 25 Sep 2012, 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bill92
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25 Sep 2012, 12:50 pm

I've just been trying to view the differences that I have as advantages. I have a amazing eye for detail, so I see things that a lot of other people miss. Also, I have a bit of an issue making inferences, but because of that, I can very easily see things as they are for what they are, which is a trait seemingly lost to a lot of NTs. I also feel like I tend to be more tolerant than many NTs I have met. I know that I'm different in many ways and because of that, I am much slower to judge others and I very rarely pre-judge others. Sometimes people seemingly find it peculiar when they offer an opinion on someone or something and I respond by saying something like, "I don't know, I haven't met him/her." It's almost like people expect everyone else to agree with them out of sympathy rather than make one's own opinions based on facts and experience.


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25 Sep 2012, 12:59 pm

One reason it's hard to accept myself is that, for every stupid NT that has something against me, I have to forget about backing my point of view up and have to defer to their view of me, because I'm the one with the damaged brain that doesn't think correctly.

And I agree: if you want to really, really find self-acceptance, sugarcoating is not the path. Admitting reality is the first step along the path of true, long-lasting self-acceptance. Then try to resolve what can be resolved.

("every stupid NT" doesn't mean that "all NTs are stupid" here)


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25 Sep 2012, 1:02 pm

FlintsDoorknob wrote:
Stop thinking yourself as different from the rest of humanity. Everyone is as weird as you are. They are just weird in different ways.


That's cute and all...but it is actually very possible to be 'different' and even get lots of hell for it, that was my experience so I imagine I am not the only one. Everyone doesn't get bullied and ostracized consistently throughout childhood its usually the child that for whatever reason sticks out as different that gets that treatment.

If everyone was just as weird as each other that wouldn't happen.



Buttoneater
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25 Sep 2012, 1:43 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
FlintsDoorknob wrote:
Stop thinking yourself as different from the rest of humanity. Everyone is as weird as you are. They are just weird in different ways.


That's cute and all...but it is actually very possible to be 'different' and even get lots of hell for it, that was my experience so I imagine I am not the only one. Everyone doesn't get bullied and ostracized consistently throughout childhood its usually the child that for whatever reason sticks out as different that gets that treatment.

If everyone was just as weird as each other that wouldn't happen.


I feel similarly every time I see "Asperger's is not a disease" at the bottom of a page. Ok, it's not a disease, you can't develop it in life, it's still an idiopathic condition, and if it causes someone distress, well that can hardly be considered a good thing. Helping them learn to be more "normal" would thus be a good thing as long as it helped reduce the distress they feel, whether by helping to reduce bullying, helping to make friends, or helping to reduce anxiety. They're not selling out "their people" by trying to live a happier life. People who talk about AS being the next stage in human evolution, all I have to say is this: X-Men isn't real, and if it were, they wouldn't consider being unable to recognize body language, anxiety attacks, or obsessive special interests to be mutant powers. Also, in order to be the next step in human evolution, you have to reproduce, which AS certainly does not help you do. Stop feeling superior to everyone else, your weaknesses are not actually strengths. I'm sorry but I hate denial.

edit: Actually I don't accept denial, at least I didn't used to and would crush people's illusions whenever possible. When I was 10 one of my mother's friends had brain cancer, glioblastoma multiforme I correctly guessed since I had read it in an encyclopedia a few weeks earlier. She was at my house, talking to my mom, and I heard her say "I'm 95% sure I'm gonna beat this thing". I interrupted with "It's funny you should mention 95%, because those are the odds of you dying before the next five years have passed with glioblastoma multiforme".



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25 Sep 2012, 2:05 pm

Buttoneater wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
FlintsDoorknob wrote:
Stop thinking yourself as different from the rest of humanity. Everyone is as weird as you are. They are just weird in different ways.


That's cute and all...but it is actually very possible to be 'different' and even get lots of hell for it, that was my experience so I imagine I am not the only one. Everyone doesn't get bullied and ostracized consistently throughout childhood its usually the child that for whatever reason sticks out as different that gets that treatment.

If everyone was just as weird as each other that wouldn't happen.


I feel similarly every time I see "Asperger's is not a disease" at the bottom of a page. Ok, it's not a disease, you can't develop it in life, it's still an idiopathic condition, and if it causes someone distress, well that can hardly be considered a good thing. Helping them learn to be more "normal" would thus be a good thing as long as it helped reduce the distress they feel, whether by helping to reduce bullying, helping to make friends, or helping to reduce anxiety. They're not selling out "their people" by trying to live a happier life. People who talk about AS being the next stage in human evolution, all I have to say is this: X-Men isn't real, and if it were, they wouldn't consider being unable to recognize body language, anxiety attacks, or obsessive special interests to be mutant powers. Also, in order to be the next step in human evolution, you have to reproduce, which AS certainly does not help you do. Stop feeling superior to everyone else, your weaknesses are not actually strengths. I'm sorry but I hate denial.


I see what you mean, however I think society is kind of a disease since if it wasn't for the way I was treated by it I probably would not be so screwed up. As for learning to be more normal, if only it was so simple.....I could pass a class on social skills with an A no problem, but there are some things I simply cannot apply to real social interactions for instance eye contact for one if I am trying to make eye contact I cannot very well focus on what is said and it causes severe discomfort.

so from my perspective I think on my end I need to try and work on things that might cause problems for other people since well I like to treat others how i want to be treated, but I think the stigma in society needs to be fought and people need to learn to tolerate those with differences not beat every last ounce of self confidence out of them. I mean it doesn't help anything to bully someone for things they struggle with through no fault of their own......so likewise kids need to be taught that and rules against it should actually be enforced rather than teachers being in on it.

And don't know if you meant the last part in general or not, but I certainly do not feel superior to anyone, and I certainly do not like that sort of attitude either so I agree with you on that....I however do not think I should have to view the way I am in a totally negative light, that's not to say I actually succeed since I am usually quite down on myself.



Buttoneater
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25 Sep 2012, 3:37 pm

The superiority remark was referring to specific people I have met in support groups and seen post in non-AS themed message boards where everyone still has AS because it's about a hobby or interest that you'd have to be autistic to enjoy.

Basically, I think kids with AS should be taught that they're OK the way they are on the inside, but be informed that not conforming will likely lead to ridicule. I've always thought acting classes might help, though I always quit them right after I started because I hated the material we had to work with, and they would stop and "Make sure you're alright" if you actually start being convincing. So what if I wanted to start an improv exercise with real tears, a red face, and hyperventilation? I was exploring a damn character! I wasn't gonna stick around if they were going to just teach us "How to memorize the script for a 2-minute stage adaptation of 'The Billy Goats Gruff'" instead of "How to method act".

Yeah, if I had stuck with it instead of getting frustrated when my acting would frighten the teacher and other students, I would be a master of manipulation today, instead of only pretty good at it.