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Fnord
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28 Sep 2012, 12:18 pm

According to This Orange County Register Article:

Denisse Salazar wrote:
SANTA ANA - A 14-year-old boy - who apparently called 911 to say a man was armed with a gun - was fatally shot Thursday night by officers ... in response to a 911 call about a man with a gun ... responding officers found a male standing on the north side of Wisteria in possession of a pistol-gripped shotgun, which doesn't have to be raised to the shoulder to shoot it ... Officers confronted the male and ordered him to drop the weapon...

He did not drop the weapon, and actually pointed it at the officers. The officers fired at the suspect, who died later at a local hospital.

So how did a 14-year old boy obtain an illegal weapon?

Why did he call 911 and report "A man with a gun"?

Why did he point the weapon at police instead of dropping it?

I call it, "Suicide by Cop" -- we'll see if I'm right later.


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Misslizard
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28 Sep 2012, 4:56 pm

Look at www.threatlink.com for an interesting article on the psychology of "suicide by cop".
The incident on the bridge happened in the small town that I live near.



Fnord
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28 Sep 2012, 4:57 pm

"Suicide by Cop" confirmed.

:(

According to This Update:

Denisse Salazar wrote:
Friday morning, officers carried out a search warrant at the boy's home and found a suicide note in his bedroom ... He was only 14 years old ... a freshman ... a good student with good attendance ... respectful, well-liked, and most recently a wide receiver on the freshman football team ... don't know of any unusual behavior ... a good kid.

So why would such a 'good' person want the police to kill him?


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Misslizard
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28 Sep 2012, 5:43 pm

I doubt if anyone will ever know,the poor family is most likely tormented by that question.



Fnord
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28 Sep 2012, 6:27 pm

After reading "Suicide by Cop" (SbC), by Clinton R. Van Zandt -- and other articles on the same subject -- the general consensus seems to support the following warning signs of potential for SbC:

1. The subject is usually male.

2. He may appear to be looking for a way to die that is "Macho" or "Manly".

3. He may come from a low socio-economic background.

4. He may have a criminal record indicating past acts of aggression, intimidation, or violence (e.g., "Bullying").

5. He have a fascination for explosives, firearms, or both.

6. He may have expressed a belief that he is a victim of society.

7. He may have expressed a desire to "go out in a big way".

8. He may have expressed a desire to punish society for the "wrongs" that he claims society has committed against him.

9. He may have expressed an elaborate plan and preparations for his own death.

10. He may have expressed feelings of hopelessness and helplessness.

11. He may have expressed that aggression, intimidation, or violence towards others ("Bullying") is a valid way to solve his problems with them.

12. He may have just assaulted (or killed) a significant person in his life (i.e., a child, a sibling, a parent, a girlfriend, et cetera).

13. He may have recently experienced one or more traumatic events that have deeply effected him, his family, or his career.

14. He may have recently given away money or personal possessions.

15. He may have recently learned he has a life-threatening illness or disease.

The trouble is that such a person may not display enough of these traits to just one person who is trained to recognize and validate them. Instead, each of these behaviors may be known by a different person, none of whom may have any recognition of the human time-bomb in their midst.

This is not a check-list, by the way, that some amateur, self-appointed sleuth may use in a "Witch-Hunt" for a "Hidden Terrorist", but is instead a list of possible behaviors that many people who commit SbC seem to have in common.

And yes, MissLizard, there is a suicide note involved in this incident, so we may at least learn what he claimed as his motivations.


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Tensu
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01 Oct 2012, 2:25 pm

Fnord wrote:
This is not a check-list, by the way, that some amateur, self-appointed sleuth may use in a "Witch-Hunt" for a "Hidden Terrorist"


But it's going to be used that way. These things always are. *sigh*



Fnord
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01 Oct 2012, 2:46 pm

Tensu wrote:
Fnord wrote:
This is not a check-list, by the way, that some amateur, self-appointed sleuth may use in a "Witch-Hunt" for a "Hidden Terrorist"
But it's going to be used that way. These things always are. *sigh*

At least it does not include the words "Loner" and "Weird".


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Tensu
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01 Oct 2012, 3:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
Tensu wrote:
Fnord wrote:
This is not a check-list, by the way, that some amateur, self-appointed sleuth may use in a "Witch-Hunt" for a "Hidden Terrorist"
But it's going to be used that way. These things always are. *sigh*

At least it does not include the words "Loner" and "Weird".


Heh. At least. :)



Misslizard
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01 Oct 2012, 6:07 pm

I'm the quiet neighbor that kept to themselves. :wink:



Fnord
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02 Oct 2012, 12:14 pm

SUICIDE PREVENTION

Warning Signs:

* Acting anxious, agitated or recklessly
* Displaying extreme mood swings
* Increasing the use of alcohol or drugs
* Showing rage or talking about seeking revenge
* Sleeping too little or too much
* Talking about being a burden to others
* Talking about feeling hopeless, trapped, in unbearable pain or having no purpose
* Talking about wanting to die or looking for a way to kill oneself
* Withdrawing or feeling isolated

The more of these signs a person shows, the greater the risk. Warning signs are associated with suicide but may not be what causes a suicide.

What To Do:

If someone you know exhibits warning signs of suicide:

* Do not leave the person alone
* Remove any firearms, alcohol, drugs or sharp objects that could be used in a suicide
* Call the U.S. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-TALK (8255)
* Take the person to an emergency room or seek help from a medical or mental health professional

Source: American Foundation for Suicide Prevention


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marshall
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02 Oct 2012, 12:32 pm

Fnord wrote:
According to This Orange County Register Article:

Denisse Salazar wrote:
SANTA ANA - A 14-year-old boy - who apparently called 911 to say a man was armed with a gun - was fatally shot Thursday night by officers ... in response to a 911 call about a man with a gun ... responding officers found a male standing on the north side of Wisteria in possession of a pistol-gripped shotgun, which doesn't have to be raised to the shoulder to shoot it ... Officers confronted the male and ordered him to drop the weapon...

He did not drop the weapon, and actually pointed it at the officers. The officers fired at the suspect, who died later at a local hospital.

So how did a 14-year old boy obtain an illegal weapon?

Why did he call 911 and report "A man with a gun"?

Why did he point the weapon at police instead of dropping it?

I call it, "Suicide by Cop" -- we'll see if I'm right later.


I don't understand. If you want to commit suicide why not just pull the trigger yourself. I mean, believe it or not some cops are actual human beings with a conscience. :roll:



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02 Oct 2012, 12:52 pm

What seems unusual to me about this case is the element of premeditation.

I'd venture the more frequent scenario is cops approaching an armed suicidal person who turns their weapon on them in the spur of the moment. This happened to a schizophrenic man my parents know. It was really sad. In those cases the cops would have been better off negotiating with the person from a safer location. The family thinks the cops were overly aggressive and messed up badly.

I find it harder to have sympathy for people who use "suicide by cop" as a premeditated way to kill themselves.



Misslizard
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02 Oct 2012, 1:20 pm

About 10 years ago a suicidal man chiseled a hole through a local pawn shop's roof,unlimited ammo plus guns.It ended in the usual sad way.It's a shame someone didn't see the warning signs,and what's even sadder is that maybe he had no one in his life to see those signs.



Fnord
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02 Oct 2012, 2:20 pm

Misslizard wrote:
It's a shame someone didn't see the warning signs...

It seems unusual for even a close relative to both see all of the signs and know what they all point to. Event more unlikely is for that person to eventually do something about it.

I wonder how many of those people who say, "We had no idea" actually knew exactly what was going on, and are only lying to protect themselves?


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CyborgUprising
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02 Oct 2012, 6:22 pm

Misslizard wrote:
About 10 years ago a suicidal man chiseled a hole through a local pawn shop's roof,unlimited ammo plus guns.It ended in the usual sad way.It's a shame someone didn't see the warning signs,and what's even sadder is that maybe he had no one in his life to see those signs.

You know what they say about hindsight...