It's like a volcano

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No matter how many virgins I toss in, it still BLOWS up anyway.

dd5 has been having loads and loads of meltdowns lately, its so bad it's hard to do anything... I was nearly an hour late to work this morning. She resists everything. All roads lead to meltdown. I need some advice or soothing words, anything...

Am I better off trying to placate her to avoid the meltdown or is it better to just go right into it and then help her calm down? DH thinks that will help her deal with real life better because other people aren't going to do a special dance for her...

While it is true that the world is not going to bend around her all the time, it is also true that she is 5 right now not 20. Not only that but from an emotional maturity point of view she may be more like 3 than 5. She needs to, and can, learn coping mechanisms but this takes time and patience. There are other options besides placating and just enduring the meltdowns. For most kids it is possible to identify the triggers that start the meltdown sequence. Sometimes this takes a lot of detective work and sometimes it is pretty obvious. Then you can avoid or mitigate the triggers. She will eventually learn to do this for herself with your support. Remember you will have to explicitly teach her the things to avoid because she may not realize for herself what is causing her difficulties. For those triggers that cannot be avoided, you can teach her coping mechanisms. This will most likely take many repetitions and a lot of work. Chances are, patient teaching of coping mechanisms will work better than the "tough love" route of letting her just push through every meltdown.

I'm really not trying to overstep here, since, well, frankly I'm fairly new to this...

But, I notice a lot of "I's" in your thought and only the tough love from your DH.

Not sure what the dynamic is at your place, but I know that it helped tremendously when I became much more active in trying to help my DS8 cope in the mornings with stuff like socks and clothes while my Wife concentrated on breakfast and making his lunch. Sometimes I can say something to him and he totally reverses behavior vs. what my Wife asked of him. And it's not that I come down on him hard, it just seems like sometimes he needs me instead of my Wife, and sometimes he needs her instead of me. It's definitely a team effort...

We work slightly different hours. So typically I'm dealling with the kids in the mornings.

In our case, meltdowns happen for a reason. It's not simply "naughty child must be punished". Their anxiety builds up and then a large trigger of more anxiety is applied, and the child just can't cope. If you can find out what that is, you can head off the meltdown.

A recent example in this forum is a child that didn't want to have a shower. Parent and "naughty" child lock horns, parent exerts authority, BOOM! All because the child doesn't yet have the communication skills to put across their sensory issue that a shower feels like needles and causes them pain. If the parent can figure that out (even through trial and error) and use a bath instead, life gets better.

One that took us a while to figure out is the favourite toy. To us, it's the thing they love/are obsessed with, therefore if they're being naughty the first thing we do is take it away from them as leverage. However to the child, playing with that toy is what makes them feel safe and reduces the anxiety. If we take it away, we're pulling the rug out from under them.

Since finding the sources of anxiety, it's made things a lot easier. The more you understand your child's world, the easier you can see these things. It also helps you realise when they're genuinely being defiant and when they're just afraid. I hope it helps in your case.

I have very mixed feelings on this issue.

For a long time, I thought my daughter did not melt down. Until someone pointed out it was because everything revolved around her every need, desire, and demand. At first I thought the person was full of it, but then I started paying attention and realizing that she had no need to have a meltdown because I anticipated her needs so well. Everybody's life revolved around not upsetting her.

For awhile I couldn't figure out if this was a good thing or a bad thing. Was it good that I anticipated her needs so well that she always felt OK? Or was it bad because she wasn't learning to cope with things?

I eventually decided that it was neither good nor bad, but that I had to start teaching her how to deal with things not going her way. I don't mean this like she was being bratty. I just mean that she had particular ways things needed to be, but life is not like that. So, I started small and worked my way up. I do notice that I have a natural tendency to just accommodate her when there is not time to go the slow route and teach her better skills, but I try to ensure that daily we "stretch" past her comfort level. It seems to be working.

My daughter is 6, about to turn 7, and I realize that they are still so young. But I don't think that means we can't nudge them in the right direction. We just have to be mindful that they are not little adults. They don't even have age-appropriate skills. So we have to have a good measure of patience and set expectations that are just a tiny hair above where they currently are.

I suppose all of this really depends upon the kid, though. My daughter is very high functioning, so I always have to remind myself that not everyone's kid is like her. I think the most important thing is that whatever you do, you do it with her best interest at heart. Then you will most likely do the right thing.

Also problem seems to be that some of her triggers are inconsitant. She might seem to suddenly get over one, but then 3 new ones pop up. One day she might be perfectly fine sharing her apple slces and anything else, and the next day she might freak out. I can usually tell when she is starting to get owund up and sometimes head it off, but other times I can't. Also, discipline of any type sets her off and I'm not about to stop disciplining her. If she punches her little sister in the face or pushes her, or takes her toy, I'm going to put her in time out. Is there a better way to discipline? I do a reward chart on my phone and I constantly give stars for good behavior. She can then trade in the stars for rewards. She needs constant feed back. However for bad behavior, I can't just ignore the fact that she hits other kids. I give her a star if she handles a challenging situation well, but if she handles it really really poorly I have to do something, don't I? I tried taking stars away and that just led to meltdowns too.

The other day she was playing with the neighbor kid and she had a meltdown and attacked him because he was using the slide when she wanted to use it. He was the last kid on the block that would play with her. Now I doubt he will again. She wrote a note saying she was "Sorry" but says she doesn't know what shes sorry for, she just wants him to play with her.

I think its important to make a distinction between aggressive behavior that occurs during meltdowns vs not during meltdowns. When a child is in the midst of a meltdown she is not in control of herself, she is operating on fight or flight reflexes only. I would suggest that for aggressive behavior during a meltdown you talk about it afterwards when she is calm but not punish her for it. She does need to be aware of the effect her actions had on other people but I think a better strategy in that situation is to help her identify how she was feeling before she hit the other child and getting her to recognize in herself what it feels like when she is starting to get out of control or is headed for a meltdown. Then work on things she can do to bring herself back down when she starts to feel ramped up.

Aggressive behavior outside of a meltdown is a totally different story. You can't just turn a blind eye to hitting her little sister or taking her little sister's toys. In those cases, consequences do need to be applied. If time-outs work, I think that is generally an age appropriate consequence. Momsparky often mentioned that they have a "No angry touching" rule in their house that it is strictly enforced.

As far as triggers seeming to be inconsistent, you may need to do a little more investigating. On the days when she is not able to share her apple slices, what happened before the apple-sharing (or not-sharing) incident that may have been different from the day when she was able to share? It isn't easy to figure some of these things out. Behavior is communication, sometimes very ineffective communication but communication nonetheless. If she is hitting other kids during play time, maybe she is try to say that playing with several kids at one time is too overwhelming for her or that she doesn't understand how to interact with them.

Here is the problem with some of the traditional methods of discipline with kids on the spectrum. The connection of the behavior to the punishment to the solution is not happening.

Imagine if you will a world in which most people are mathematically inclined. They see number patterns in everything. They can be shown something mathematical once and they get it. But you are not. People go around making math comments and they smile, or frown in response appropriately. You get it only if someone takes the time to show you slowly a step at a time repeatedly on paper and then they roll their eyes and sigh frustratedly because you need the same explanation the next time, because they changed it up a little. Then you say/do something wrong, everyone shakes their head, yell or frown and puts you in a chair and say don't you know that a squared plus b squared equals c squared. Next time do it right. So you try, but the next time they say.... no no no you are supposed to use the quadradic formula. And on and on.

This is social/communication to someone with ASD. They can learn it. But they don't often just get it. You have to really break it down, repeat it, write it out, demonstrate it and go over it many times. Even when they learn it and are adults, they have to think about it much harder than the average person (at least thats what has been explained to me).

This doesn't mean you just let them hit, but it does mean you have to take more effort to explain exactly what they are suppossed to do in each situation and why as the situations arise, then practice those situations. Time out alone just doesn't work.

Some other parents on here have explained what to do way better than I in past posts.

When I am feeling especially frustrated that my child doesn't get it, I remind myself how hard it is for me to clap to a beat, shoot a basketball or run without tripping over my own two feet. It helps me gain my composure and find some patience within.

I agree with everything that Eureka-C said.

Personally what I have done is as follows: In the very beginning when nothing was clicking with him, I would try my hardest to avoid things that I knew were meltdown triggers. This may or may not have been ideal, but honestly we had enough unpredictable/unpreventable triggers to where I felt he was being exposed to the notion of things not always going his way. Then, as my social stories etc started to click better, I would selectively opt to let small disappointments happen, so he could exercise his capabilities at self control. That is where we are now.

I don't think a lot is served by just letting them meltdown when they don't understand and have no clue how to self-soothe. A lot of it will depend on your ability to catch the signs of meltdown while your child can still accept reason and help walk him through stepping away from the proverbial cliff and avoiding a full on meltdown. This takes practice and the child has to be receptive. I would not feel at all badly that you are not there yet. My son is 7, so we have been at this awhile, and I don't get it right more often then I would care to admit.

This thread is really interesting, I am at the begining of the journey so its given me a few ideas, thanks

I think I have also been unknowingly pandering to her every need and whim to avoid meltdowns but this causes problems as people see a well behaved little girl whose mother never tells her off and "spoils" her People dont believe she has AS! I hadnt realised I was doing this but when I think about it, when she was 6 months I used to go to 2 playgroups a day with a nap at home in between! I would go out every day, often twice a day because she was better behaved when she was stimulated with new toys.

I will have to think about gradually letting her practice self control. Lots of good points in these posts, thanks

This is brilliant. Especially because I am a mathematical idiot, so I can really relate.

This is a PERFECT analogy!! Even most NT's who ARE good at math find it far easier to imagine not being good at math than to directly imagine being in the shoes of a spectrum kid for whom social skills and communication don't come easy.

Yes... This is very very helpful. I'm going to actually show this to my husband, only I'll replace math with music because he is a math genious. I think this is a really really good analogy.

This is so funny because my daughter also seems to be a math genious and in a weird way, you have actually described her world.

Yes great analogy, Im useless at maths, numbers are ablur to me, but I live in a house with 2 aspies who dont seem to have that problem, so I dont have to imagine too hard!

@CWA

Do you use social stories with your daughter? I think that the benefits of sitting down and going through a social story (i.e. what to do when I am mad, what to do when I want to hit someone, etc) can be equal and often greater than the benefits of typical consequences/punishment for bad behavior.

Also I would not recommend taking away stars, as that can be very confusing ("But I already earned that star, why are you taking it away for a different reason?") rather try setting a time limit for "cashing in" her stars. For example, say she typically earns 5 stars a day (or 10 stars a week, or whatever) than set a reasonable goal of when they expire and when she can "cash in." I worked with a child who had the opportunity to earn 30 stars in one week (M-F). The stars expired on Friday afternoon and he had to have at least 20 to choose his reward. So whenever he had a tantrum/meltdown he did not earn the star for that part of the day. I like this method because the ideology can remain consistent but the expectations can change as your child grows.