What is more acceptable to 'heteronormative people'?

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The reason that it may be selfish is because, if this is a monogamous long-term relationship that two people are committed to make it work, then besides masturbation, you are his sole outlet for him to express himself sexually. If the understanding entering something like, say, marriage, was that: "you know, we totally get each other, we get along very well, we have great mental stimulation and emotional chemistry but we both acknowledge that one or both of us are will be more so sexually unavailable, and we're fine with that" then no harm, no foul. At least you both entered in understanding that, so its not selfish.

You have to marry with your mind, your heart, and your genitals. The last one most people are uncomfortable bringing up, and understandably so, but the sexual chemistry between two people is almost as important as the first two. Being honest at the onset helps, so does asking each other what sex means to them and how it makes them feel. And it goes both ways by the way, I feel bad for women who are stuck with a sexually unavailable man, and vice versa, especially if the sexual unavilability was misunderstood and not expected, and they've invested all this time and love only to be locked out of that.

Bingo.

God made order and separation, and almost every policy following the second day of creation is reconfirmed in Jewish ritual. The text when not read into has nothing against the trans so long as it conforms to a specific gender identity. (That doesn't mean that people won't have something against trans.)

It was written specifically this way under the assumption that gender is not that confining... only to be reconfirmed by within Jewish society and every culture it came into contact with. It assumes that we are born a certain way, gay or straight or bi or transexual or whatever, but the way that people behave around us is just much an influence on our sexual identity, and that our sexuality is far more fluid then we think. 100% nature, and 100% nurture makes up the human being.

What's embarrassing about it? How could anyone blame you for having an irrational thought pass through your mind? Everyone has irrational thoughts and impulses pass through their mind.

You aren't responsible for thoughts that you can't control. You are responsible for your actions, which you can control.

If an asexual person enters into a relationship without making their preferences known upfront, I agree that it is selfish. I've never agreed with other asexuals who were upset when they spring their lack of desire for sex on their sexual partner, and subsequently become upset when said partner dumps them.

Personally, I don't have the ability to cater to someone else's "physical needs," nor am I able to satisfy their emotional needs. It would be grossly irresponsible of me to enter into ANY romantic relationship.

People get mad when their partner won't put out. I think it's pretty awful when a person expects their partner to pretty much let them masturbate using their body, having to go through sex that they don't want and can't enjoy and possible even have pain from.

I've seen plenty of women on the hysterectomy forum I'm on with husbands getting all pissy about not getting any when their wife has good excuses of not being healed enough yet or having pain and aren't refusing just because they don't feel like it (which is a legitimate excuse too).

I'll likely never get in a relationship with a man again for various reasons but one big one is that I will never do penetration again. I am now even tampon free and am going to have a fit if I'm expected to use dilators after my radiation. I don't even want to do pelvic exams but I suppose I'll have to.

That's an incredibly dumb thing to say. Homophobes hate transsexuals as much as they hate gays. They would argue that "trannies" are just gays in disguise.



@Puddingmouse: WTF do you mean by "heteronormative" people? You do realize that many, many radical feminists, particularly of the separatist variety, are vehemently transphobic? I could show you blog after blog bashing trans women. These retardettes think that there's a 'patriarchal conspiracy' to "infiltrate" their movement by means of MTF transsexuals.....

Homosexuality isn't more 'common'. Its just that more homosexuals are out as a result of better advocacy, rights advancement and greater tolerance within wider society.

In days of yore homosexuals had to remain hidden to avoid social castigation and imprisonment.

Or worse,burning.I read that the term"fa***t" came from the fact that so many homosexuals were burned,so the term fa***t,which once meant a peice of wood became synonymous with being homosexual.

By heteronormative, I mean people who are icked out by homosexuality, even despite their better selves.

Yeah, I know rad fems hate transsexuals. They are right to be concerned about the marginalisation of the lesbian identity, but I don't think transsexuals are the source of this. I don't agree with them on this issue.

There is a problem that MtFs often go to extremes to embody the feminine stereotypes that radical feminists fight against. They attribute this to the wrong source, however. MtFs do all that preening s**t because they are under pressure to do so in order to pass, not because they are part of the patriarchal conspiracy.

I also think that in some places (like Iran and Latin America) people are under pressure to transition because the society doesn't accept homosexuals. Radical feminists call this 'butch flight', where an increasing number of butch lesbians transition. It is hard to be a butch lesbian because all the benefits of being a woman are tied into performing the 'feminine role'. I'm not a butch and I daydream about transitioning a lot because I'm so sick of this crap - but the real fault lies with society there for defining gender roles in such a constricting way.

Lynn Conway's surveys (which admittedly aren't perfect) gave results of between 1:250 and 1:500. LGB people are generally said to be 3-10% of the population. That's a big difference.

It is less than less than perfect, it is a load of nonsense. Its transparently part of the right wing mandate to label homosexuality as a 'pandemic' or 'fashionable lifestyle choice'.

You're forgetting that within the last 40 years there have been massive strides forward in public attitudes and therefore the likliehood of someone of a homosexual persuasion openly admitting their sexuality.

It isnt that homosexuals are increasing its, that the conditions for being open about it are far more tolerant.

Absolutely. And this isn't even necessarily about asexual's, heterosexual males and females with low sex drives need to be aware of their partners need. Some people want it too much, I understand that extreme, but awareness, concern, and understanding on this issue would help a good many relationships out.

I wonder how that statement would fare in the LGBT Discussion thread...

I admit it was too general; not all MtFs (or even most) try to do hyperfemininity. The ones that do, stand out, however - so they are the target of radical feminist scorn. I mean, some people probably do hyperfemininity because they just want to, but that mystifies me. I usually just see it as a social pressure rather than a thing that occurs on its own. I'm talking crippling shoes, restrictive clothing, constant use of cosmetics and fake submissive behaviour here. If you say that women naturally make sacrifices in terms of time, health and sanity in order to increase their attractiveness and this is something hardwired into them - I'm talking actually doing things like maiming your own feet and putting harsh chemicals on your skin or hair. I don't think those behaviours are hardwired.

The stereotype of an MtF is that they do all these things, and whilst all stereotypes are inaccurate and harmful there is a grain of truth in them. I don't think MtFs do it because they are misogynistic (which is what rad fems think), I think they do it because society is misogynistic. Some of them seem to think being female depends on doing those things, or they think that that's what society expects of them.

My problem is that transgender individuals are targeted at all by feminists - a group who themselves claim to be oppressed. A recent US study found that 41 percent (not a typo) of transgender individuals have attempted suicide at some point, which probably make them the most marginalized group in society - and a hell of a lot more marginalized than even the most radical of radical feminists.

Furthermore, you make a lot of claims about the motivations of transgender individuals, but so far, I have seen no proof...

Is it possible that these individuals have a lot more problems to deal with than ill-defined notions of misogyny and patriarchy?

^I was just trying to provide some insight into why radical feminists are antagonistic to trans people. I don't want to excuse their prejudice. I'm aware of how high the suicide rate is for transgender people. I don't think that's necessarily the best measure of how marginalised a group is (though it is a good one, I admit). I'm also not a fan of playing oppression Olympics. When you compare one person's experience of marginalisation to another, you automatically devalue the other person's experience. At no point did I say 'radical lesbians have it much harder than trans people'.

As for them being the most marginalised group in society, it honestly depends on which society were talking about.

You could say, 'well if you don't want to compare how oppressed one group is with another, then why make this poll?' The reason I made it was to see what hetero people thought rather than to see outright who has it worse.

Most of transgender people's problems come not from radical feminists, but from the gender norms of patriarchal society. which is what leads to their isolation and violent attacks that are made upon them. I do think they have every reason to be as concerned about patriarchy as I am.