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enrico_dandolo
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21 Oct 2012, 4:16 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
I didn't say that Constantine's creation of the universal church caused a schism, I said the schism came later.

Actually, after reading your post again, you said exactly what I said, just in a more concise way. Sorry.



puddingmouse
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21 Oct 2012, 4:24 pm

enrico_dandolo wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I didn't say that Constantine's creation of the universal church caused a schism, I said the schism came later.

Actually, after reading your post again, you said exactly what I said, just in a more concise way. Sorry.


I know. :P

I can be a bit too concise, to be honest.



enrico_dandolo
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21 Oct 2012, 4:53 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
enrico_dandolo wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I didn't say that Constantine's creation of the universal church caused a schism, I said the schism came later.

Actually, after reading your post again, you said exactly what I said, just in a more concise way. Sorry.


I know. :P

I can be a bit too concise, to be honest.

And I can be too verbose. ;)



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21 Oct 2012, 8:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
How do you miff off a Catholic?

Say any of the following:

... Mary had more children after Jesus.

... The saints are just dead people.

... The worship of relics is morbid superstition and idolatry.

... Praying to anyone or anything other than God is idolatry.

... Jesus was a Jew.

... The Roman soldiers killed Jesus.

... God wanted Jesus to die.

I forgot one:

... Jesus was "Anatomically Correct".


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ruveyn
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21 Oct 2012, 8:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
Fnord wrote:
How do you miff off a Catholic?

Say any of the following:

... Mary had more children after Jesus.

... The saints are just dead people.

... The worship of relics is morbid superstition and idolatry.

... Praying to anyone or anything other than God is idolatry.

... Jesus was a Jew.

... The Roman soldiers killed Jesus.

... God wanted Jesus to die.

I forgot one:

... Jesus was "Anatomically Correct".


Some believe that Jesus was God on a stick.

ruveyn



naturalplastic
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23 Oct 2012, 1:08 pm

enrico_dandolo wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I didn't say that Constantine's creation of the universal church caused a schism, I said the schism came later.

Actually, after reading your post again, you said exactly what I said, just in a more concise way. Sorry.


Well- there were two "Great Schisms" in the middle ages.

One is called the "East-West Schism"(what youall are talking about), and the other is sometimes called "the schism in the west".

But both are also called "THE Great Schism" just to be confusing.


The great schism of the west was from 1378 to 1417- when two guys claimed to be Pope at the same time (one reigned from Avignon France, the other in Rome). No differences in theology. Just a power rivalry. It was within the catholic realm.Nothing to do with the eastern orthodoxy.

The east west schism that split the orthodox from the catholics was not a real "event" (like the south seceding from the Union in the american civil war) but a non event (repeated failure to reunite). But the date 1054 is attached to it anyway. During the dark ages the two christianities evolved in regional isolation. When things got more civilized they both became aware of each other, but the two corporate cultures had become incompatible by that time.

In 1054 legates from Rome traveled to constantinople to try to persuade the head honcho of the eastern church to stop claiming to be "the patriarch" and accept the pope in rome as his superior. He refused. The legates excommunicated the greek , so he excommunicated them back. And the merger talks fell through.

But many attempts at reconciliation had occured before that date, and continue to this day.

Maybe theyll reunite someday.



equestriatola
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23 Oct 2012, 4:26 pm

Wow......... Catholicism seems to be very multi-faceted and complex. Thanks for enlightening me.


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enrico_dandolo
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23 Oct 2012, 4:47 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Maybe theyll reunite someday.

After the Fourth Crusade, it became more or less impossible, except by force.

equestriatola wrote:
Wow......... Catholicism seems to be very multi-faceted and complex. Thanks for enlightening me.

To complicate matters, in practice, Catholicism is only communion with the Bishop of Rome, i.e. the Pope. Rite, i.e. the traditions, habits, practices, etc., can differ.

Most Catholics follow the Latin rite (that of Rome), but some don't. The Maronites in Lebanon are in communion with Rome, but follow their own rite. Some Ukrainians have also reunited with Rome -- and in case it weren't bizarre enough, these Ukrainians are called Greek Catholics (or Uniate), because they follow the Greek rite.



Kraichgauer
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23 Oct 2012, 6:53 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I was Catholic for many many years, and pretty much still am on paper. I still halfway believe in it, and I was very devout for a long time. This is what I was taught, I don't want to get into a debate with anybody about whether they agree with what the Church teaches or if what the Church teaches is true. I don't care ether way and people are certainly free to believe what they want, this is just what I was taught.

Catholicism is the original form of Christianity. It was simply called "Christianity" for a long time, and "Catholic" means "Universal" as in the Universal Church. The seven Sacraments are based on the Bible, as are the teachings of the Church. Many Protestants disagree with some of them because they can't find them in their NIV, KJV, etc. Thats because Luther removed books and some verses from other books as well as as the Gospel during the Reformation because he didn't believe they were inspired by God. These books and verses are widely known as the Apocrypha but they ar not. The Apocrypha is a group of other books that are a companion to Scripture that are in some Catholic Bibles. I can't remember all of them but one is named Bel and the Dragon. All Catholic Bibles have the full unedited Scripture, but not all have the Apocrypha. It says so inside or on the box if it does.

The Church also has Tradition, which are extrabiblical things that it does. These things are things like Liturgy, sacramentals, praying to saints, etc. Another thng that many disagree with is the Pope's infallability. That's because many misunderstant it. The Pope is not infallable about anything except matters of the Church and religion. He can't tell you who will win the Superbowl. He isn't a psychic, but Catholics believe that God guides the Pope when he is speaking Ex Cathedra and so is there infallable.

Praying to saints is another misunderstood thing. It's not worship, and to understand the practice you would need to understand Beautific Vision, which is where those in Heaven can see and hear those on earth. The Saints are not considered gods or even demigods, they are somewhat like lobbyists in DC. They help push your case with God so to speak.

Anyway, thats a quick little overview which doesn't tell you all that much. You might like Catholicism for Dummies, which goes into it pretty good. Also if you like religions and just want to learn more, you can go to a local Catholic Church's RCIA classes. Those are for adults who want to convert, but you don't have to want to convert to attend. Some people attend just to learn about it. They usually run once a week from November to Easter. It's free in most places, and some churches have the classes on tape that you can borrow or buy. They cover different topics each week. It's really interesting and because I like religions, I wish that all religions had classes like that open to the public. I know what I'd be doing!

You could also PM Mindsigh, as she has access to a lot of materials that she could point you towards.


Actually, Luther hadn't removed the Apocryphal books, because they hadn't been added to the Catholic Bible yet till after the Reformation. And he hadn't removed anything from the Bible, simply considered certain books such as Revelations as not having been inspired, and depended on the Hebrew and Greek translations rather than the Latin.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Declension
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23 Oct 2012, 6:56 pm

Ilka wrote:
P.D.: I did not find your joke funny. I did not find it offensive in any way, just not funny.


I think it could be pretty funny with the right delivery. It plays with expectations. Like that old classic, "A man walks into a bar and orders a drink".

On topic, I think that Catholicism is probably the religion with the biggest disconnect between what adherents are "supposed" to believe and what they actually believe. Most Catholics just seem to consider themselves to be garden-variety Christians. They probably don't believe that the Pope is specifically authorised by God or any of that stuff, or at least they have probably never thought about it.