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noobler
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22 Oct 2012, 6:42 am

I went through a period of multiple years trying to fit in with the rest of society and got pretty fed up with everyone

I also wasn't prone to much self doubt in this way, and I did find myself thinking up schemes of various sorts that I didn't put into action because it seemed like a lot of work and so on, but I did know how to play the games at a conscious level

so you could almost say that it was a simulated sociopathy I guess, although it was fairly incomplete

note that psychopathy and sociopathy are distinct disorders, one of which is recognized by it's violence typically and the other by it's more " subtle" approach

one can argue about clinical definitions back and forth and all this but that's generally the working differentiation between the two, one's psyche, the other's social, or something I dunno


oh and I was under total and utter denial of my autistic traits at the time, or ignorance of them (I managed to get success dealing with it to a degree and never even knew about what it was, so the symptoms kinda went away and I thought it was just something everyone went through)

being frustrated without knowing that there's a decent explanation for it does wonders to one's desire to imagine everything being broken, shredded and burned in sight, torn apart, smashed, crushed, impales, etc...

or just listen to calming music, I had an emergency assessment and quick diagnosis of schizoid personality disorder and had been looking up sociopathy at the time as well

both of which looked partly like they could explain a few *bits* of myself, but accepting being on the autistic spectrum explains everything, and predictability does wonders to calm a mind down that wants to just make everything that bothers it just go away...

it's really bizarre trying to read into things that describe you, but you keep noticing problems with that idea, but it's all you've got as a framework... and because I had fixed my symptoms, I disregarded my earlier symptoms and categorization of differences

I did notice however that I wasn't out for blood, just that I didn't care and I'd rather be left alone, and that my tendency to imagine concepts was not along hallucinatory lines, but rather remembering concepts that I've seen earlier

ugh.



Last edited by noobler on 22 Oct 2012, 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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22 Oct 2012, 6:44 am

It seems like every time I see a proposed distinction between the two, it's a different proposed distinction. I'm inclined to believe they both describe the same thing and it just has a bit more variety to presentation.



noobler
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22 Oct 2012, 6:56 am

I guess I should write a short answer....lololol

in general people expect flattery and praise and all that BS, we're called "brutally honest" for a reason, the concept of "brutal" honesty itself is a construct of the attitude that "nothing should ever say that I'm less than perfect" or something like that


people either mistake or pretend to mistake a lack of flattery as an insult, or honest assessment of errors as an unnecessary insult

this is what's equated to psychopathy of all things, also while psychopaths can be violent, they're really nasty that way, like leading people onto roofs to push them off

a sociopath will play social "games" in the game theory sense of the word, merely to exert power and harm others' and to get away with it


the difference between the two is someone bulldozing through a crowd to get somewhere because they're late, and one running into the middle of one, whipping a knife out and slashing people - spending just enough time to do as much as possible and still get to work in time (and using the crowd's panic to get away unnoticed - note the knowledge of taking a huge risk in this case as well)



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22 Oct 2012, 9:17 am

I've always wondered if I'm a psychopath, because of the way I get horribly jealous of my NT peers a lot. I don't know if it's from psychopathy (wanting them to be as unhappy as me so they can be on my level to make me feel less isolated), or if it just comes from having the feeling that people (even those that are younger than me) have moved on before me, and the more I try to better things, the more I sink into the mud.


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22 Oct 2012, 11:28 am

Verdandi wrote:
It seems like every time I see a proposed distinction between the two, it's a different proposed distinction. I'm inclined to believe they both describe the same thing and it just has a bit more variety to presentation.


You better be referring to sociopathy and psychopathy, not autism and psychopathy....


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Kindertotenlieder79
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23 Oct 2012, 11:52 pm

GGPViper wrote:
I have actually done some serious reading on psychopathy, and IMO, those who believe that Aspergers = Psychopathy are the easiest victims for *actual* psychopaths.


I've had several psychopaths/sociopaths point fingers at me and claim I'm the "bad/evil" one. I had one harass me at a church job until she sent me into a meltdown, getting me fired by claiming I threatened her in some way. I could not understand why others in the church could not see her the way I did . . .



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24 Oct 2012, 2:00 am

Kindertotenlieder79 wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
I have actually done some serious reading on psychopathy, and IMO, those who believe that Aspergers = Psychopathy are the easiest victims for *actual* psychopaths.


I've had several psychopaths/sociopaths point fingers at me and claim I'm the "bad/evil" one. I had one harass me at a church job until she sent me into a meltdown, getting me fired by claiming I threatened her in some way. I could not understand why others in the church could not see her the way I did . . .


It's because most people judge others on their social ability and how they are seen by the majority as opposed to judging their moral qualities. They don't tend to be aware that an abusive person is being nasty to a vulnerable person as they pick their moment. Also most people are wrapped up in themselves and don't care what happens to others as long as it doesn't affect them directly.

Also, churches attract obnoxious, self-important hypocrites I'm afraid; people who are the very opposite if the Christian ethos. The decent people are in the minority if they exist at all. This is why, despite thinking of myself as a Christian, I would not attend church or join a church group. I do not need to be affiliated to a church to try to be a good person.



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24 Oct 2012, 7:57 am

noobler wrote:
I guess I should write a short answer....lololol

in general people expect flattery and praise and all that BS, we're called "brutally honest" for a reason, the concept of "brutal" honesty itself is a construct of the attitude that "nothing should ever say that I'm less than perfect" or something like that


people either mistake or pretend to mistake a lack of flattery as an insult, or honest assessment of errors as an unnecessary insult

this is what's equated to psychopathy of all things, also while psychopaths can be violent, they're really nasty that way, like leading people onto roofs to push them off

a sociopath will play social "games" in the game theory sense of the word, merely to exert power and harm others' and to get away with it


the difference between the two is someone bulldozing through a crowd to get somewhere because they're late, and one running into the middle of one, whipping a knife out and slashing people - spending just enough time to do as much as possible and still get to work in time (and using the crowd's panic to get away unnoticed - note the knowledge of taking a huge risk in this case as well)


But what you ascribe to sociopaths are features that are also ascribed to psychopaths and vice versa.



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24 Oct 2012, 7:59 am

Ganondox wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
It seems like every time I see a proposed distinction between the two, it's a different proposed distinction. I'm inclined to believe they both describe the same thing and it just has a bit more variety to presentation.


You better be referring to sociopathy and psychopathy, not autism and psychopathy....


If you read the post immediately prior to mine, noobler provides a distinction between sociopathy and psychopathy.

Also, if you look at my other posts in this thread, it would be wildly inconsistent for me to say that psychopathy and autism both describe the same thing, since I also said that it would take an incompetent professional to confuse the two.



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24 Oct 2012, 8:49 am

I don't think anyone who spends any time with be would mistake me for a psychopath/sociopath. I think of myself as sort of the opposite of a sociopath. Sociopaths generally know what's going on socially and they know how people feel, how to appear supportive, etc.... they just don't actually care about those feelings and will harm someone without a second thought. On the other hand, I have no idea what's going on socially, don't usually know how people feel, and even when I do know how they feel I don't know how to react to it. BUT I do care about others and when I will help others and avoid harming them whenever I am aware of ways to do that.

During certain meltdowns I could possibly be mistaken as psychotic, bipolar, borderline, or other something else though.



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24 Oct 2012, 9:06 am

aspiemike wrote:
Was labelled a psycho in grade 9 and apparently people had spread a rumour that I had a hit list and was going to "pull a Columbine." Their words, not mine. I don't remember shaking the stigma throughout high school. It didn't help with some of my humour being dark at times either.

I am not sure why some people think we are psychos. I never looked into it much myself. I think maybe because others didn't know when to take me serious and the issues with my body language and tone of voice.


psycho is totally different, it means you get pleasure out of killing, sociopaths are almost the opposite in that they feel nothing, no guilt no pleasure.

Regardless I liked the when people started to be fearful of me. I was a large kid, and I was known to snap agressively. It in fact resulted in me not ever being bullied after my first melt down.

Also there were more than a few gym classes, where "I tripped" and accidently slamed into a bully. Always got away with it to, as I was seen as to large to be able to control my large frame. :twisted:



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24 Oct 2012, 11:33 am

I think that a lot of us with Aspergers feel some temptation to engage in mildly psychopathic behaviour to relieve our frustrations somewhat, but we resist the temptation to do so, because there are already so many unintentional manifestations of negative behaviour on our part, that we can ill-afford to engage in any intentional ones.

Just objectively speaking that's all...



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24 Oct 2012, 2:51 pm

Stoek wrote:
psycho is totally different, it means you get pleasure out of killing, sociopaths are almost the opposite in that they feel nothing, no guilt no pleasure.


This isn't correct. That is, psychopaths don't feel guilt, etc. either. One of the prominent features of psychopathy is emotional poverty.



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25 Oct 2012, 12:17 am

nessa238 wrote:
Kindertotenlieder79 wrote:

Also, churches attract obnoxious, self-important hypocrites I'm afraid; people who are the very opposite if the Christian ethos. The decent people are in the minority if they exist at all. This is why, despite thinking of myself as a Christian, I would not attend church or join a church group. I do not need to be affiliated to a church to try to be a good person.


I noticed in my travels that churches tend to have that "too many chiefs (psychos) not enough Indians (real Christians) " thing going on. It bothers my idealism and sensitivities. I mean, seriously, can one not shut their :evil: for one frickin hour a week, or simply not attend if they're going to revel in their :twisted: in church?? Apparently it is a resounding "no" for the self-important hypocrites.



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25 Oct 2012, 2:05 am

Kindertotenlieder79 wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Kindertotenlieder79 wrote:

Also, churches attract obnoxious, self-important hypocrites I'm afraid; people who are the very opposite if the Christian ethos. The decent people are in the minority if they exist at all. This is why, despite thinking of myself as a Christian, I would not attend church or join a church group. I do not need to be affiliated to a church to try to be a good person.


I noticed in my travels that churches tend to have that "too many chiefs (psychos) not enough Indians (real Christians) " thing going on. It bothers my idealism and sensitivities. I mean, seriously, can one not shut their :evil: for one frickin hour a week, or simply not attend if they're going to revel in their :twisted: in church?? Apparently it is a resounding "no" for the self-important hypocrites.


Any group of people will invariably be obnoxious as it's human nature to strive for status and resources. You need a thick skin to deal with these types of people and people with Aspergers often do not have this, possibly as it needs to be built up via ongoing socialising practice, which many of us don't get as we are usually socially excluded.

I think if a person is both very sensitive and analytical they will analyse the group dynamics and see how unpleasant it all is. Stupid people just go with the flow and are either none the wiser or immune to it all.



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06 Feb 2019, 10:32 pm

Yes. I don't know why. Maybe because people don't understand the difference. We have a whole array of emotions, we just can't express them properly. We like people. We just don't know what to do with them. A psychopath has no conscience. They use people for their own personal gain. Some of us aspies can't make eye contact but psycho make very direct eye contact - some scare the mess out of you!