Can people choose to be gay like they can choose ice cream f

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aghogday
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20 Jan 2015, 10:02 am

To me, at least, it is fascinating to watch some of the usual Anti-GOD folks here avoid the science of this when it comes to a topic that has personal emotional implications.

Good POTENTIAL lesson here, as to why there is so much disagreement among theists and atheists.

Emotions rule science (systemizing mind) and always will as that is human nature, no matter how scientific (systemizing) a person THINKS they are. Of course, unless there is serious brain damage as some studies show folks with this issue of brain damage cannot make decisions as simple as what color socks to wear when presented with more than one choice in the morning.

Emotions are VITAL TO THE COGNITIVE FUNCTIONING OF THE BRAIN; no ifs and or BUTS about that.

Anyway, my point here is, there is nothing WRONG WITH protecting one's emotional health, even if it means avoiding the SCIENCE AT HAND.

WELL BACK to the science at hand, the study provided here, linked below, on real life primitive peoples makes it abundantly clear that environment plays a huge role in the genetic propensity towards homosexual behavior and HA! ha! even masturbation, as in the two linked primitive cultures when SOCIAL ROLES ARE CLEARLY DEFINED AND MATES OF THE OPPOSITE SEX ARE a GIVEN FOR THE WHOLE TRIBE, THERE ARE not even any words for homosexuals OR MASTURBATION.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/where-masturbation-and-homosexuality-do-not-exist/265849/

BUT ON the other hand, SEX is considered in the cultural language OF THESE PRIMITIVE PEOPLES as PLEASURABLE 'night' WORK FOR MAKING BABIES AND THAT IS ALL.

SO CULTURE RULES AND PROPENSITIES OF HOMOSEXUALITY that in identical twin studies SCIENCE DOES SHOW A CORRELATION OF ABOUT 20 PERCENT, IS PART Of the GENETIC PROPENSITY Equation but far far from the total equation of human sexual orientations, WHEN the cultural ENVIRONMENT IS INCLUDED IN THE MIX.

BUT IN my opinion, GENETIC PROPENSITY IN even just 20 percent is ENOUGH TO FIGHT FOR HOMOSEXUAL RIGHTS.

AND IN my opinion, no GENETIC PROPENSITY IN EVEN JUST 0 PERCENT of Twin studies, IF THAT WAS A FACT, is ENOUGH TO FIGHT FOR HOMOSEXUAL RIGHTS, AS NOT EVERYONE is cut out for having children, AND THAT'S A FACT.

And Human Freedom of choice TO EXPLORE FULLEST human nature in enjoying life, including sexual related preferences, as long as they are consensual, legal, and harm no one, is WHAT A FREE COUNTRY IS ALL ABOUT, WHETHER folks want children or not.

PEOPLE who do not want children HAVING CHILDREN can LEAD TO Emotionally dead children, MENTAL DISORDERS, addiction, criminality, and many types of other disorders across the lifespan.

LOVING NURTURING PARENTS WHO WANT CHILDREN IS A NECESSITY of a healthy society.

Science now MOST DEFINITELY shows that children who are not nurtured properly in the first two years of life, FACE A LIFE OF POTENTIAL MISERY, AS WELL as the folks they come in contact with.

And A LACK OF NURTURING in the first two years of LIFE, IS A FACTOR per some forms of Autism, as science also now does show, however politically incorrect it may be to FACE THAT BIOLOGICAL/ENVIRONMENTAL FACT with emotions sweeping facts UNDER THE CARPET, OR in the CLOSET.


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20 Jan 2015, 12:01 pm

aghogday wrote:
To me, at least, it is fascinating to watch some of the usual Anti-GOD folks here avoid the science of this when it comes to a topic that has personal emotional implications.

Good POTENTIAL lesson here, as to why there is so much disagreement among theists and atheists.

Emotions rule science (systemizing mind) and always will as that is human nature, no matter how scientific (systemizing) a person THINKS they are. Of course, unless there is serious brain damage as some studies show folks with this issue of brain damage cannot make decisions as simple as what color socks to wear when presented with more than one choice in the morning.

Emotions are VITAL TO THE COGNITIVE FUNCTIONING OF THE BRAIN; no ifs and or BUTS about that.

Anyway, my point here is, there is nothing WRONG WITH protecting one's emotional health, even if it means avoiding the SCIENCE AT HAND.

WELL BACK to the science at hand, the study provided here, linked below, on real life primitive peoples makes it abundantly clear that environment plays a huge role in the genetic propensity towards homosexual behavior and HA! ha! even masturbation, as in the two linked primitive cultures when SOCIAL ROLES ARE CLEARLY DEFINED AND MATES OF THE OPPOSITE SEX ARE a GIVEN FOR THE WHOLE TRIBE, THERE ARE not even any words for homosexuals OR MASTURBATION.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/where-masturbation-and-homosexuality-do-not-exist/265849/

BUT ON the other hand, SEX is considered in the cultural language OF THESE PRIMITIVE PEOPLES as PLEASURABLE 'night' WORK FOR MAKING BABIES AND THAT IS ALL.

SO CULTURE RULES AND PROPENSITIES OF HOMOSEXUALITY that in identical twin studies SCIENCE DOES SHOW A CORRELATION OF ABOUT 20 PERCENT, IS PART Of the GENETIC PROPENSITY Equation but far far from the total equation of human sexual orientations, WHEN the cultural ENVIRONMENT IS INCLUDED IN THE MIX.

BUT IN my opinion, GENETIC PROPENSITY IN even just 20 percent is ENOUGH TO FIGHT FOR HOMOSEXUAL RIGHTS.

AND IN my opinion, no GENETIC PROPENSITY IN EVEN JUST 0 PERCENT of Twin studies, IF THAT WAS A FACT, is ENOUGH TO FIGHT FOR HOMOSEXUAL RIGHTS, AS NOT EVERYONE is cut out for having children, AND THAT'S A FACT.

And Human Freedom of choice TO EXPLORE FULLEST human nature in enjoying life, including sexual related preferences, as long as they are consensual, legal, and harm no one, is WHAT A FREE COUNTRY IS ALL ABOUT, WHETHER folks want children or not.

PEOPLE who do not want children HAVING CHILDREN can LEAD TO Emotionally dead children, MENTAL DISORDERS, addiction, criminality, and many types of other disorders across the lifespan.

LOVING NURTURING PARENTS WHO WANT CHILDREN IS A NECESSITY of a healthy society.

Science now MOST DEFINITELY shows that children who are not nurtured properly in the first two years of life, FACE A LIFE OF POTENTIAL MISERY, AS WELL as the folks they come in contact with.

And A LACK OF NURTURING in the first two years of LIFE, IS A FACTOR per some forms of Autism, as science also now does show, however politically incorrect it may be to FACE THAT BIOLOGICAL/ENVIRONMENTAL FACT with emotions sweeping facts UNDER THE CARPET, OR in the CLOSET.


So?

What is your answer to the question?

Is homosexuality a choice, or not?



aghogday
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20 Jan 2015, 12:07 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
aghogday wrote:
To me, at least, it is fascinating to watch some of the usual Anti-GOD folks here avoid the science of this when it comes to a topic that has personal emotional implications.

Good POTENTIAL lesson here, as to why there is so much disagreement among theists and atheists.

Emotions rule science (systemizing mind) and always will as that is human nature, no matter how scientific (systemizing) a person THINKS they are. Of course, unless there is serious brain damage as some studies show folks with this issue of brain damage cannot make decisions as simple as what color socks to wear when presented with more than one choice in the morning.

Emotions are VITAL TO THE COGNITIVE FUNCTIONING OF THE BRAIN; no ifs and or BUTS about that.

Anyway, my point here is, there is nothing WRONG WITH protecting one's emotional health, even if it means avoiding the SCIENCE AT HAND.

WELL BACK to the science at hand, the study provided here, linked below, on real life primitive peoples makes it abundantly clear that environment plays a huge role in the genetic propensity towards homosexual behavior and HA! ha! even masturbation, as in the two linked primitive cultures when SOCIAL ROLES ARE CLEARLY DEFINED AND MATES OF THE OPPOSITE SEX ARE a GIVEN FOR THE WHOLE TRIBE, THERE ARE not even any words for homosexuals OR MASTURBATION.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/where-masturbation-and-homosexuality-do-not-exist/265849/

BUT ON the other hand, SEX is considered in the cultural language OF THESE PRIMITIVE PEOPLES as PLEASURABLE 'night' WORK FOR MAKING BABIES AND THAT IS ALL.

SO CULTURE RULES AND PROPENSITIES OF HOMOSEXUALITY that in identical twin studies SCIENCE DOES SHOW A CORRELATION OF ABOUT 20 PERCENT, IS PART Of the GENETIC PROPENSITY Equation but far far from the total equation of human sexual orientations, WHEN the cultural ENVIRONMENT IS INCLUDED IN THE MIX.

BUT IN my opinion, GENETIC PROPENSITY IN even just 20 percent is ENOUGH TO FIGHT FOR HOMOSEXUAL RIGHTS.

AND IN my opinion, no GENETIC PROPENSITY IN EVEN JUST 0 PERCENT of Twin studies, IF THAT WAS A FACT, is ENOUGH TO FIGHT FOR HOMOSEXUAL RIGHTS, AS NOT EVERYONE is cut out for having children, AND THAT'S A FACT.

And Human Freedom of choice TO EXPLORE FULLEST human nature in enjoying life, including sexual related preferences, as long as they are consensual, legal, and harm no one, is WHAT A FREE COUNTRY IS ALL ABOUT, WHETHER folks want children or not.

PEOPLE who do not want children HAVING CHILDREN can LEAD TO Emotionally dead children, MENTAL DISORDERS, addiction, criminality, and many types of other disorders across the lifespan.

LOVING NURTURING PARENTS WHO WANT CHILDREN IS A NECESSITY of a healthy society.

Science now MOST DEFINITELY shows that children who are not nurtured properly in the first two years of life, FACE A LIFE OF POTENTIAL MISERY, AS WELL as the folks they come in contact with.

And A LACK OF NURTURING in the first two years of LIFE, IS A FACTOR per some forms of Autism, as science also now does show, however politically incorrect it may be to FACE THAT BIOLOGICAL/ENVIRONMENTAL FACT with emotions sweeping facts UNDER THE CARPET, OR in the CLOSET.


So?

What is your answer to the question?

Is homosexuality a choice, or not?


I already provided that answer earlier in the thread as quoted here:

Quote:
Like almost everything else in life it is a spectrum of innate propensities and potential causal factors COMING together to make FULL sexuality what it is in any unique individual.

So in other words.. sometimes it is a choice like choosing ICE CREAM and sometimes IT IS NOT.

BUT ANYWAY, Kinsey's extensive research is STILL the best 'we' have in understanding the full spectrum of human sexual orientations and sexual activity with WHATEVER GENDER THEY SO DESIRE.

http://www.queerbychoice.com/dubay_homosexuality.html

GAY IS just a concept of label like specific religions and traditions thereof to impose repression, oppression OF HUMAN SEXUAL ORIENTATION NATURE and subjugation through illusory fears to scare the propensity for same sex attraction OUT OF FOLKS.

IF CULTURE SAID it was AND IS 'A' OK, overall, there is no telling what the percentage of same sex sexual activities might be.

Yeah, it could even BE LIKE OUR CLOSEST PRIMATE COUSINS THE BONOBO.. WHO 'F' EVERY HAIRY Bonobo PRIMATE WITH OR WITHOUT TESTICLES THAT MOVES to resolve potential aggression and violence with THE OXYTOCIN NEUROHORMONE released during the 'COMING' OF SEX.. THAT BONDS PRIMATES together in body and mind balance FOR GREATER SOCIAL COOPERATION.

AND nah.. not just the BILL CLINTON DEFINITION OF SEX.. ALL OF THE STIMULATING ACTIVITIES THAT CAN LEAD TO CLIMAX.

This is much more complicated thaN SIMPLE CLASSICAL DARWINIAN EVOLUTION FOR REPRODUCTION.

SURVIVAL OF A SOCIAL ANIMAL MEANS SOCIAL COOPERATION, AND HOOKING UP IS THE 'BIG BALLED' all natural PRIMATE WAY OF GETTING HER OR HE DONE.

BUT Culture alone can convince women that cutting off their clitoris organ, used as pleasure organ only, IS AN EFFECTIVE CULTURAL PRACTICE OF GAINING greater self esteem, so in the world of human beings, 'STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES'..

TO PARAPHRASE and quote the fictional and non-fictional FOREST GUMP. ;)




The problem with living a life in mechanical cognition and books is ONE CAN FAIL TO REALIZE THAT HUMAN BEHAVIOR never ever works in black and white terms.

I have experience with literally over 100,000 real flesh and blood human beings in extended longitudinal interactions over decades with thousands, so I have a good idea what is REALLY GOING ON WITH HUMAN BEINGS, AND IT IS NEVER EVER BLACK AND WHITE BEHAVIOR.

SO YES OR NO, WHEN IT COMES TO HUMANS BEINGS, ARE TWO WORDS THAT TRULY DO NOT EXIST IN LIVING COLOR FLESH AND BLOOD HUMAN BEING.

LIFE IS ART WHEN REAL, ALLONE, NOT SYSTEMIZING BS.. ALONE.


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zer0netgain
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20 Jan 2015, 12:13 pm

ruveyn wrote:
However people can control their -actions-. That is the essence of free will.

ruveyn


This is about it.

You can't control what you feel, but you can choose how you act on it.

To that regard, a person does make a choice.

Otherwise, you might as well argue that a man MUST cheat on his wife if he finds another woman sexually desirable.



aghogday
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20 Jan 2015, 12:34 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
However people can control their -actions-. That is the essence of free will.

ruveyn


This is about it.

You can't control what you feel, but you can choose how you act on it.

To that regard, a person does make a choice.

Otherwise, you might as well argue that a man MUST cheat on his wife if he finds another woman sexually desirable.


NAH.. some folks most definitely can control their feelings with the real scientifically acknowledge power of emotional regulation.

And it's been done in Eastern Philosophies for literally eons across human history, and before the traps of complex language, collective intelligence, complex cultures and mechanical cognition leaning thinking overwhelms the physical intelligence that does most definitely drive emotional regulation.

Unfortunately, it is a creative power in human relative free will that takes practice, practice, practice, per power within through physical intelligence free form movement that science does show regulates emotions, as well as providing sensory integration, and executive functioning prowess through the glue of memories and greater focus.

IN other words, there is no 'john 3:16' to get there, as metaphor only please, like a magic incantation or a little crystalized knowledge out of a science text book.

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.. HAS ALWAYs BEEN The KUNG FU way of regulating emotions for simple balanced bliss in the moment of knowing NOW.

Perhaps the greatest healing force of mankind IS the true PRACTICE AND POWER OF EMOTIONAL REGULATION THROUGH Relative Free Will, as emotions out of control, are usually a train headed for human misery, sooner or later ULTIMATELY IN DISEASE AND OR DISORDER OF THE physical kind measured by doctors.

I used to be diagnosed with 19 medical disorders, including a substantial challenge with life threatening ones, including AN emotional life compromised by Alexithymia.

I cured THEM ALL WITH MIND OVER MATTER, AND RELATIVE HUMAN FREE WILL, THROUGH THE REAL HUMAN EMOTING FORCE OF BELIEF, HOPE, FAITH, AND WILL IN ME AND ALL THAT IS AKA GOD OR Mother Nature TRUE, and yes THROUGH THE REAL SCIENTIFICALLY NOW MEASURED HIGHER POWER of physical intelligence through the free flow of movement otherwise known as interpretive dance that does regulate human emotion, enhance sensory integration and executive functioning, including memory, FOCUS, and EVEN STANDARD INTELLIGENCE, AS science shows even structured exercise as little as one hour long before a Standard IQ test can raise IQ points by 10 points.

BUT IF I was STILL stuck, like a stick in the mud, in mechanical cognition and a book OR Computer screen, instead of PURSUING THE ART OF HUMAN BEING, INSTEAD OF THE SYSTEMIZING SCIENCE PART ALONE, I would have never ever traveled and live like I do know in the real KINGDOM OF HEAVEN that can be now, for those who master life as Is NOW WITH MOTHER NATURE TRUE AKA GOD2! :)


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20 Jan 2015, 6:20 pm

You don't choose your sexuality, you're born with it, just like being on the spectrum.



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21 Jan 2015, 2:34 am

trans people often report their sexuality changes from desire towards one gender and then to the opposite gender, so it can definitely change over time for people

science is probably far away from figuring out how to flip the switch



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21 Jan 2015, 6:47 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
trans people often report their sexuality changes from desire towards one gender and then to the opposite gender, so it can definitely change over time for people

science is probably far away from figuring out how to flip the switch


And the secret for why such change is possible is simple....

If you know WHY you want to feel a certain way and CHOOSE to pursue it, you will get there. If a gay man wants to live a heterosexual life, it's a choice. He may always feel the occasional desire for another man, but if he made his choice for sound personal reasons that bring him peace and contentment, he will stick with his choice just as someone who promises to be faithful to their spouse will remain faithful because it was the choice and commitment they freely made.



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21 Jan 2015, 8:49 am

zer0netgain wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
trans people often report their sexuality changes from desire towards one gender and then to the opposite gender, so it can definitely change over time for people

science is probably far away from figuring out how to flip the switch


And the secret for why such change is possible is simple....

If you know WHY you want to feel a certain way and CHOOSE to pursue it, you will get there. If a gay man wants to live a heterosexual life, it's a choice. He may always feel the occasional desire for another man, but if he made his choice for sound personal reasons that bring him peace and contentment, he will stick with his choice just as someone who promises to be faithful to their spouse will remain faithful because it was the choice and commitment they freely made.


Don't you have to be completely nuts to choose a lifestyle opposite to your own sexuality? I'm straight, I can't see any reason to have a relationship with men. I assume it's the same for gay people.



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21 Jan 2015, 10:56 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
trans people often report their sexuality changes from desire towards one gender and then to the opposite gender, so it can definitely change over time for people


Sounds like bisexual to me.



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21 Jan 2015, 11:00 am

Dillogic wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
trans people often report their sexuality changes from desire towards one gender and then to the opposite gender, so it can definitely change over time for people


Sounds like bisexual to me.


It is not bisexual. Because they have only a single attraction at one time.

To further complicate the question, it is straight men that like trans women for the penis, because they find the penis an exotic aspect.

So some straight males like being with a female partner that has a penis. This makes it complicated on what it means to be gay.



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21 Jan 2015, 12:25 pm

All straight males? Or are they not as straight as they would want to believe ?

My ex-ish husband returned to his belief he's 'hermaphrodite' (having big breasts he would like And a penis)

Idealizing feminity as being occupied with being female, so he goes shopping new things every week!

I haven't bought anything in the last four years, luckily sometimes I get something, before that my mother mostly gave me clothes, or money which I mostly spend on giving the children some money for clothing or pocketmoney, which he didn't agree to give them (but I gave it anyway).
What beats me is all the support he gets from friends/acquaintances, as if I'm the untouchable.
Also the bank blocked my money and wanted a declaration of him that I lived at that place, Yes a man in a dress is still legaly man (and legally all is firstly his, even if it's mine)
Now with the political promotion of men in dresses I'm furious, how that!! ! woman are still not equal and already they want to take that part (again)
sneakin' in my rant here, :ninja:
Well I might not be considered very feminin, but partly it's selfdestruction.
Emotionally I'm female but with the male brain thinking and lacking the obvious female interests and behaviour.

Maybe it's because I'm not good enough a female and should be punished by one and condemned by all,
I donno those female ways to get the man do what I desire :mrgreen:



zer0netgain
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22 Jan 2015, 6:53 am

trollcatman wrote:
Don't you have to be completely nuts to choose a lifestyle opposite to your own sexuality? I'm straight, I can't see any reason to have a relationship with men. I assume it's the same for gay people.


One would think, but physical pleasure is physical pleasure, and "straight" guys do a lot of "gay" things and think nothing of it because it's done in fun and they don't overtly sexualize the event.

If a straight guy realized he got better quality "action" from gay men, there's nothing keeping him from choosing to pursue that unless he really didn't want to do it.



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22 Jan 2015, 8:48 am

^^^

Yup, happens in prison, LOTS OF TIMES.

And other male only institutions, like the military and boys schools.

FREE ACCESS TO consensually willing and socially legal WOMEN FOLKS from puberty, seems to help AVOID THE 'DREADED H WORD', for at least some folks.

Reference back to the primitive tribe study, I provided earlier in the thread, if necessary, please. ;)

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/where-masturbation-and-homosexuality-do-not-exist/265849/

I personally have a thing for dark haired girls but that likely has a great deal to do with the FACT THAT MY first love was A dark haired GIRL.

PEOPLE tend to love what they LEARN TO LOVE.

AND yeah that explains MOST fetishes too, homosexual or NOT.

PERHAPS THE greatest ASSet about 'us' Autistic folks of the traditional Hans Asperger, case study, 'STYLE' of Asperger'S IS, WE ARE NOT AFRAID OF POLITICALLY INCORRECT.

I call It the TURING EFFECT.

IT CAN EVEN SAVE 14 MILLION LIVES.

Great movie, by the way.

Per the
IMITATOR.

SURPRISED, NO ONE has started up a THREAD ON THAT ONE.


NOW that could be fascinating. ;)


But I'm considered too POLITICALLY INCORRECT AROUND HERE, TO GET RESPONSES. ;)


IT'S THE ASPERGER'S THINGY, WHAT CAN I SAY. ;)

I FOR ONE, AIN'T CHANGING, TO SUIT ANYONE ELSE.

AND NEITHER DID, Alan Turing, TG.

But here's my shot at it, per folks WHO DON'T MIND DIFFERENT and truly have different minds. ;)

http://katiemiafrederick.com/2015/01/18/the-turing-effect/


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aghogday
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22 Jan 2015, 9:15 am

By the way to clarify.

The movie I noted above is the
IMITATION GAME

ABOUT ALAN TURING.

EDIT TIME RAN OUT. ;)


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23 Sep 2020, 11:43 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
The question was whether people can people choose between being gay or straight: not whether most people actually do choose.

Who knows? Some day, you might wake up and say "You know what? I really feel like buggering a man today. I think I'll go do it."

LOL :lol:


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