MarketAndChurch wrote:
LKL wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
[Rights according to who? Since when was that established? Who is the right-giver? Who is the right-protector? I understand it sounds sexist, but nature is sexist, these attempts to right the wrongs of the natural world is unethical when you strip one human of their rights to satisfy the desires of another.
Rights according to the US constitution and US law,
given to us by our fellow citizens. No human has the right to use another person's body against their will; even convicted murderes on death row cannot be forced to donate so much as a drop of blood against their will.
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Does the unborn have any rights, at all? And don't hide behind a definition.
Imnsho, No, it does not. I don't think that it's a person, a citizen, until it's born. It only has the rights that the woman whose body it is using decides to give it.
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1.) How about we end partial birth abortions and make an exception for rape?
No such thing as a 'partial birth abortion.' There is 'Intact d&c,' which is the often the safest way for a woman with a medically-necessary late-term abortion to terminate. Also, there's the whole "legitimate rape" faction of the right wing that claims that a pregnancy is proof tha the woman wasn't actually raped. So, no.
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2.) Conservatives are not intolerant and bigoted for opposing Gay marriage or abortion.
Yes, they are, particularly wrt. gay marriage. As Roy Zimmerman puts it, the mantra of the religious right is, "Let's get the government out of our lives, and into our pants."
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3.) Businessman and scientists who take conservative positions, be it on global warming, gay marriage, or taxes are not doing it out of greed or bad intentions.
Statistically, yes, they are.
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4.) Blacks are made to feel the world is against by white liberals.
Blacks are not some kind of idiotic golem underclass that can only learn things by being told by white people. They figure racism out perfectly well by themselves.
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5.) Godist's are not always the friends of Liberty, either. And, to tell a secular that their secular ways are wrong is not emotional manipulation. Why would they be hurt by "X,Y, or Z will land you in hell" when, to a secular, hell is the figment of the imagination of the deluded? "God has a plan for you" is meaningless, there is no emotions towards a God, and therefore none in that arena to manipulate.
This would be absolutely true if there weren't goddists in the US Senate, the US House of Representatives, and various state-houses across the country trying to impose their morality on the rest of us: from sectarian Christian prayers before law-making sessions, to football players forced to run through Christian banners before football games, to prayers announced over the loudspeakers at school events, to attempts to get Christian mythology taught in science classes, to attempts to legislate Christian morality at the doctor's office and in the bedroom.
You didn't answer who gave us that right: "no human has a right to use the body of another human without their permission. "
yes, I did: bolded in my response, which you quoted above.
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And if they make the exception to the law tomorrow as many states are with regard to abortion, does that invalidate it for you?
If my fellow citizens took away my right to bodily autonomy, then no: I would no longer have a right to bodily autonomy. Hopefully I would still have the right to move to another state or country where the citizens still preserved that right.
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Does your moral opinion hinge on the legality of something or not?
No. I think that the death penalty is immoral, and advocate against it. You have every right to think that abortion is immoral, and to advocate against it; I will continue to advocate against taking pregnant women's bodily autonomy away. Thankfully for me, I'm in the majority as far as what rights my fellow citizens think are moral in this case.
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If you don't think a human baby has any right until it is birthed, then there is absolutely nothing to debate. There is only something to debate if a human has rights at any stage of its life.
I don't think that there's such a thing as an 'unborn baby,' so I guess that the argument is over as far as you are concerned. Until the baby is born, it is functionally (if not genetically) a part of the woman carrying it.
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I'm asking you morally, who gave us that right.
again, for the ....third? fourth? time, our fellow citizens determine our rights. I would have fewer rights in Saudi Arabia than I do in the US, because the citizens and rulers there do not grant women as many rights. I'm sure that they think it is a moral issue that women not drive.
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And if enough of us feel that the unborn has rights, you should accept that on the grounds that the people has voiced their opinion, and the technicality of legality is what matters to you
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I would accept it to the same extent that I accept the death penalty: I would think that it is immoral, and that the right should be given to women to control their own bodies (and to vote, and to drive cars, etc). If I got pregnant, I'd probably move to some country with the bodily autonomy of women intact for the duration so that I wouldn't end up like that poor woman in Ireland if something went wrong.
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The only freedoms the Left defends is in the sexual arena. If they are not telling you what you cannot smoke or drink, or how high you can set your thermostat or, or how much water you can consume, or what milk you can buy, or what kind of car you can drive, or the forms of insurance you have to buy, they are controlling some aspect of your life. Other then Gay Marriage and Abortion, what does the Right stop you from doing?
The right has all kinds of ideas about what is moral and immoral; very few of those ideas on either side are enshrined in law. Just as the most obvious example, they'd like to get rid of any language other than English (I've seen more than one right-winger practically froth at the mouth merely from being in the presence of people speaking other languages, especially Spanish, and if I (as a hospital staff member) am taking the time to translate for someone, that is apparently especially egregious). They'd also like to prevent the exercise, especially in the pulic sphere, of any religion other than Evangelical Christianity. The requirement to buy various forms of insurance, btw, started out as a right-wing idea in order to prevent 'freeloaders.'
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Businessman and scientists believe in the conservative beliefs that they believe in, they are not propelled by bad intentions.
Bad intentions? Not exactly. Blinded by money? Quite often, yes. Very few scientists are conservative, and even fewer are blindly conservative.
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Blacks are babied by academia and society. The proof are blacks who come here from Africa in the last two decades. White people may be as*holes to them because they are foreigners, but they aren't paralyzed by:"You're *ucked, you might as well give up because the world is against you" at their back. No, they move into the middle class after a generation or two.
Blacks who come here from foreign countries generally didn't grow up in inner-city ghetoes and attend inner-city dumping-ground schools. Read some Kozol if you don't know what I'm talking about.
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There is nothing wrong with Goddists in the Senate or in their state legislator. You have a right to decide the kind of society you live in, and the option to move to any one of the 50 states or the many metropolitans that fits your beliefs and lifestyle.
They are a problem to the precise extent that they ignore the constitution and try to impose their religious beliefs on other people.
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But you are not dealing with the issue of Emotional Manipulation regarding Goddists. What form of emotional manipulation do they engage in? Even amongst their constituents, the positions they take are the moral expressions of those they represent -- no one is being emotionally manipulated.
*snort*
Listen to Glenn Beck recently? Watch Faux News?
Fear, disgust, anger, and paranoia are emotions.
16 Nov 2012, 12:53 am
