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Should Religious Prostitution be Legal?
Yes 56%  56%  [ 18 ]
No 25%  25%  [ 8 ]
Just Show the Results 19%  19%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 32

ArrantPariah
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15 Nov 2012, 4:09 pm

Here is a case

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/09/arizon ... ?hpt=hp_t2

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A church called the Phoenix Goddess Temple has been accused of being a house of prostitution, and a six-month undercover investigation has resulted in the arrests of 20 women and men who worked there, Phoenix police said Friday.

Authorities are still searching for 17 more people -- all of whom have been indicted -- in connection with the prostitution enterprise, said Sgt. Steve Martos, a Phoenix police spokesman. The 20 people arrested so far have been charged with prostitution or other offenses, police said.

During a Wednesday search of the Phoenix temple and two church-related sites in nearby Sedona, police seized evidence showing that "male and female 'practitioners' working at the Temple were performing sexual acts in exchange for monetary 'donations,' all on the pretense of providing 'neo tantric' healing therapies," Phoenix police said.

The alleged brothel generated tens of thousands of dollars a month, Martos told CNN.

A history of neighbor complaints, a recent Phoenix newspaper article, and the temple's website were among the factors prompting authorities to conduct the undercover investigation, Martos said.

"What's unusual is that they were trying to hide behind religion or church, and under the guise of religious freedom, they were committing acts of prostitution," Martos said.

"We certainly respect First Amendment rights. However, religious freedom does not allow for criminal acts," Martos said.

Regarding the Goddess Temple's website, he said: "What they would talk about would seem to be religion. At the same time, they were implying or intimating that they were giving sex therapy."

The website says at one point: "Sex is a holy, sacred and divine healing force at the core (of) our beings. Once we embrace this force instead of deny it, we become successful, happy and powerful manifestors."

The website also features unclothed women, listed as residing in several states, under a "Goddesses" section.

The investigation focused on the alleged crimes, said acting Phoenix Police Chief Joe Yahner.

Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery added in a statement: "Freedom of religion does not allow individuals to trade sex for money, no matter how the transaction is portrayed."

The alleged madam, Tracy Elise, who is in her 50s, was arrested and charged with prostitution, illegal control of an enterprise, pandering, and operating a house of prostitution, police said.

Elise was allegedly involved in a similar suspected brothel in Seattle, Washington, which authorities shut down in 2009, Phoenix police said.

Elise or her attorney could not be immediately reached for comment.

Others named in the indictment face charges including conspiracy, working in a house of prostitution, and massaging without a license. A total of 33 people have been indicted, but during Wednesday's search of the Phoenix temple, police arrested four more people not named in the indictment, Martos said.

Four of the 20 people arrested are men, and two of the four are alleged prostitutes, Martos said. The other two men are a website operator and a school director-teacher at the temple, he said.

The other people arrested are women, he added....


The First Amendment wrote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Quote:

Originally, the First Amendment applied only to laws enacted by the Congress. However, starting with Gitlow v. New York, the Supreme Court has applied the First Amendment to each state. This was done through the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.


Here is the Phoenix Goddess Temple's website

http://www.phoenixgoddesstemple.org/

Huffington Post video

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/1 ... 56835.html

During Prohibition, Catholics had an religious exemption to drink wine at their communions

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... rohibition

Other Christians switched to grape juice and Kool-Aid.

I think that the First Amendment was used to protect the production of pornographic films: although the actors were paid for coitus, they were paid to produce material that would be sold, and got around the prostitution accusations that way.

So, what say ye? Should religious prostitution be permitted?

I'd like some analysis from our resident legal scholars, too.



abacacus
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15 Nov 2012, 5:07 pm

You can f**k for free, so why not sell it too?


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puddingmouse
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15 Nov 2012, 5:10 pm

As long as is isn't FORCED, then I don't care.



Fnord
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15 Nov 2012, 5:14 pm

It's bad enough that religious institutions in America already have tax-free status.


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androbot2084
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15 Nov 2012, 5:29 pm

What do you mean by donations?



abacacus
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15 Nov 2012, 5:30 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
What do you mean by donations?


"You donate x amount, this pretty girl and you get a private room to do as you please."


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androbot2084
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15 Nov 2012, 5:44 pm

Donations are usually a percentage of ones income. Donations can be expected but donations cannot be forced. Therefore donations would depend on the integrity of the members a trait you would not find in typical Johns who would try to take advantage and get the sex for free.



MarketAndChurch
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15 Nov 2012, 6:18 pm

No. God and religion is to be fully desexualized. The institution of Family and Religion cannot survive if it is corrupted by its sexualization.


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Fnord
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15 Nov 2012, 6:24 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
... The institution of Family and Religion cannot survive if it is corrupted by its sexualization.

Let us all pray that there shall never be a sex scandal involving any church leaders.

Oops ... to late!

:oops:

Quote:
Room 538 of the Sheraton Sand Key Resort in Clearwater, Florida will go down in history -- not for the view or ambience but rather, for the historic union which took place there. It is there that, in December of 1980, an attractive twenty-something church secretary named Jessica Hahn got to know Jim Bakker and John Wesley Fletcher -- in a Biblical sense. And that close encounter of the threesome kind defined American televangelism. The ambitious, high-living, wild-spending Bakker has truly became a American icon.

When you look at it objectively, Jimmy Swaggart's most famous transgression doesn't quite measure up to those of many of his counterparts. But what it lacked in substance, it more than made up for in style. Swaggart was immortalized by his tearful televised confession ... but some time later, he was stopped while driving in his rented Jaguar with yet another "lady of the evening." At last report, Bro. Jimmy is enjoying God's anointing on his life, and a veritable blizzard of blessings (including a fleet of Mercedes Benzes) -- irrefutable evidence that God endorses legalized prostitution.

> LINK <

:lol:


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Dantac
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15 Nov 2012, 6:37 pm

Their website is hilarious. Its like someone took every cliche word and concept in the web about 'chakra' and 'energies' and all that new age like stuff and twisted it into an excuse to set up a brothel.



MarketAndChurch
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15 Nov 2012, 6:49 pm

Fnord wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
... The institution of Family and Religion cannot survive if it is corrupted by its sexualization.

Let us all pray that there shall never be a sex scandal involving any church leaders.

Oops ... to late!

:oops:

Quote:
Room 538 of the Sheraton Sand Key Resort in Clearwater, Florida will go down in history -- not for the view or ambience but rather, for the historic union which took place there. It is there that, in December of 1980, an attractive twenty-something church secretary named Jessica Hahn got to know Jim Bakker and John Wesley Fletcher -- in a Biblical sense. And that close encounter of the threesome kind defined American televangelism. The ambitious, high-living, wild-spending Bakker has truly became a American icon.

When you look at it objectively, Jimmy Swaggart's most famous transgression doesn't quite measure up to those of many of his counterparts. But what it lacked in substance, it more than made up for in style. Swaggart was immortalized by his tearful televised confession ... but some time later, he was stopped while driving in his rented Jaguar with yet another "lady of the evening." At last report, Bro. Jimmy is enjoying God's anointing on his life, and a veritable blizzard of blessings (including a fleet of Mercedes Benzes) -- irrefutable evidence that God endorses legalized prostitution.

> LINK <

:lol:


Even in ancient Israel there were many movements within Judaism, by Jews, to include cultic prostitution in the temple like all other societies around them. But the day that God is sexualized is the day that the entire institution becomes unworkable. A priest who visits a brothel doesn't sexualize God. We don't all of a sudden deem God sexualized because his interpreter and/or messenger has made a mistake, or, is a crook. We attribute all of the shortcomings of the pastor who has fallen to that pastor, and God is still God, fully desexualized. Now, if all of God's interpreters and messengers began to interpret and communicate a different message, that's an entirely different issue.

The pastor who has error'd and visited a brothel is not troubling to me -- at least he knows what he is doing is wrong and doesn't care. There is a chance that there is hope for said pastor.

Its the people who set up a brothel in a church and most likely think its okay or even elevated to conflate God and sexuality that is troubling. There is no hope for them. To tell them what their doing is wrong is to tell an ancient sodomite that raping foreign men is wrong. They wouldn't have a clue what you're talking about.


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Misslizard
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15 Nov 2012, 7:35 pm

Didn't Jim Baker get caught with his pants down too?



ScrewyWabbit
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15 Nov 2012, 7:47 pm

This group, or someone like them, have been around for quite a while now - I remember hearing their "high priestess" or whatever she called herself on the radio maybe 15 or 20 years ago. Its hard to think of this as a much of a legitimate religion, rather than a made up excuse for "legal" prostitution, since it really doesn't have any history. But if they want to practice this religion, they should confine themselves to practicing that particular part of their religion to places where prostitution is legal - i.e. that county in Nevada, or Amsterdam, etc. But they should not have protection under US law as a legit religious group, with tax exempt status and all that goes with it.



Fnord
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15 Nov 2012, 8:05 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
... the day that God is sexualized is the day that the entire institution becomes unworkable.

Surprise! Whenever a church leader molests a child or is caught visiting a prostitute, the image of G-d becomes sexualized, since people seem to have this knack of equating their religious leaders with the Will of G-d, if not G-d Himself.

Ask some of the Atheists around here; ask them what kind of god would allow his or her representative on Earth to get away with adultery, theft, and murder. I'd wager that to many Atheists, the sins of the priests reflect the Will of G-d.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
It's the people who set up a brothel in a church and most likely think its okay or even elevated to conflate God and sexuality that is troubling...

Either the people who set up the brothel were the church leaders, or the church leaders looked the other way once they saw how much money was coming in. The two surest ways to corrupt church leaders involve sex or money -- usually both.

And the surest way to gain the contempt of B'lievers is to remind them of the fact that Jesus, their Lord and Savior, was "Anatomically Correct", and therefore a sexual being. Since those who have seen Jesus have seen G-d, then G-d Himself must also be a sexual being.


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ruveyn
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15 Nov 2012, 8:16 pm

All prostitution should be legal, as long as it is voluntary and the person selling the services is of the age of reason.

ruveyn



Fnord
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15 Nov 2012, 8:23 pm

ruveyn wrote:
All prostitution should be legal, as long as it is voluntary and the person selling the services is of the age of reason. ruveyn

Well ... okay.

What happens between two or more consenting adults of legal age in private is of no concern to me ... unless I'm married to one of them, of course.


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