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Axeman
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22 Nov 2021, 11:52 am

funeralxempire wrote:
xxZeromancerlovexx wrote:
Axeman wrote:
AprilR wrote:
Some people are not fit for working.


That is not my problem.


Even if it isn’t your problem some people can’t work. It’s really greedy when some people (not necessarily you) say only people who can work full or even part time deserve a salary that’s decent.


Some people are proud that their mindset is essentially sociopathic in nature. That's what Ayn Rand encourages in her works, it's the core of 'social darwinism'.


Image


Actually the book of hers you should read is Anthem.

Your October 15 thing didn't work and you were so butt hurt you had the thread locked. That's pathetic.



Last edited by Axeman on 22 Nov 2021, 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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22 Nov 2021, 11:57 am

Axeman wrote:
theprisoner wrote:
Axeman wrote:
AprilR wrote:
Some people are not fit for working.
That is not my problem.
Axeman, say you have an accident like christopher Reeve, you end up paraplegic. you cant work. but you need very expensive medical care to keep you alive, you cant pay. If i'ma doctor, should i let you die a slow death, and tell you "That is not my problem" or should i help you, assist you, even though you are not "fit for working." and cant possible pay the medical bills.
Businesses exist to make money. They are under no obligation to do anything else. With a doctor they have a skill set same as any professional. It's to make them money. They aren't obligated to care for anyone outside that context.
Unless the producers own the means of production, the only obligation employers have for their employees is to provide a safe and healthy work environment, with pay (prevailing minimum wage).

However, if an employer wants to attract top-performing employees -- those whose skills are so much in demand that they can dictate the terms of their employment -- that employer must be willing to offer greater perquisites and benefits than any competing employer.

Sadly, such employees are few and far between, leaving employers to choose from an ocean of mediocre candidates who show little or no potential for growth; but when one of those "golden" employees does show up, he or she is free to choose the best offer, instead of having to settle for the "default" employment package.



Last edited by Fnord on 22 Nov 2021, 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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22 Nov 2021, 12:00 pm

Yep....this is the "unpopular opinions" section.

But I must say that paraplegics frequently are capable of doing gainful work.



theprisoner
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22 Nov 2021, 12:48 pm

Axeman wrote:
Businesses exist to make money. They are under no obligation to do anything else. With a doctor they have a skill set same as any professional. It's to make them money. They aren't obligated to care for anyone outside that context.


So if i'm a doctor and you are paraplegic who cant breathe, i can safely pull the plug on you, because your credit bounced. okay. Thats good to know. SO honorable you would die for your principles like that. And not object to the right of a heartless capitalistic american medical industry system and its model of doing business and its societal implications. It underlying anti-human stance, cash over life philosophy. so noble and brave of you to sacrifice your self like that. :roll: Social darwinism is the natural way after all. I mean we're just animals, nothing more than that , right.


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Fnord
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22 Nov 2021, 12:56 pm

theprisoner wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Businesses exist to make money. They are under no obligation to do anything else. With a doctor they have a skill set same as any professional. It's to make them money. They aren't obligated to care for anyone outside that context.
So if i'm a doctor and you are paraplegic who cant breathe, i can safely pull the plug on you, because your credit bounced. okay. Thats good to know. SO honorable you would die for your principles like that. And not object to the right of a heartless capitalistic american medical industry system and its model of doing business and its societal implications. It underlying anti-human stance, cash over life philosophy. so noble and brave of you to sacrifice your self like that. :roll: Social darwinism is the natural way after all. I mean we're just animals, nothing more than that , right.
Your argument fails because: (1) With over a half-million licensed and practicing physicians in America, one physician refusing to treat a patient means only that the patient still has over a half-million other licensed and practicing physicians from which to choose; (2) It relies on the "Cancel Culture" fallacy; and (3) It is hyperbolic nonsense.



Last edited by Fnord on 22 Nov 2021, 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Axeman
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22 Nov 2021, 12:56 pm

theprisoner wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Businesses exist to make money. They are under no obligation to do anything else. With a doctor they have a skill set same as any professional. It's to make them money. They aren't obligated to care for anyone outside that context.


So if i'm a doctor and you are paraplegic who cant breathe, i can safely pull the plug on you, because your credit bounced. okay. Thats good to know. SO honorable you would die for your principles like that. And not object to the right of a heartless capitalistic american medical industry system and its model of doing business and its societal implications. It underlying anti-human stance, cash over life philosophy. so noble and brave of you to sacrifice your self like that. :roll: Social darwinism is the natural way after all. I mean we're just animals, nothing more than that , right.


You exaggerate everything to ridiculous extremes. However you are correct in the last sentence.



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22 Nov 2021, 1:01 pm

I have been accused of being overly dramatic in arguing a point. The point is, we are capable of being much more than mere instinctive unreflecting animals. And we can organize a social system along principles of much more higher and advanced than that of the jungle.


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Fnord
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22 Nov 2021, 1:04 pm

People pulling the "Blame and Shame" style of guilt-trip on others when they themselves do nothing.



funeralxempire
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22 Nov 2021, 1:05 pm

Axeman wrote:
Your October 15 thing didn't work and you were so butt hurt you had the thread locked. That's pathetic.


The topic was no longer relevant, you'll have to find another place to troll. 8)


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Axeman
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22 Nov 2021, 1:07 pm

theprisoner wrote:
I have been accused of being overly dramatic in arguing a point. The point is, we are capable of being much more than mere instinctive unreflecting animals. And we can organize a social system along principles of much more higher and advanced than that of the jungle.


Name one example where that actually worked in the real world.

I was reading a National Geographic article once on a hippie commune in Missouri called East Wind. Most of the people there were unhappy but lacked the money or equity to move away.



Axeman
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22 Nov 2021, 1:08 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Your October 15 thing didn't work and you were so butt hurt you had the thread locked. That's pathetic.


The topic was no longer relevant, you'll have to find another place to troll. 8)


No longer relevant certainly. Because it just didn't happen.



theprisoner
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22 Nov 2021, 1:18 pm

Axeman wrote:
theprisoner wrote:
I have been accused of being overly dramatic in arguing a point. The point is, we are capable of being much more than mere instinctive unreflecting animals. And we can organize a social system along principles of much more higher and advanced than that of the jungle.


Name one example where that actually worked in the real world.

I was reading a National Geographic article once on a hippie commune in Missouri called East Wind. Most of the people there were unhappy but lacked the money or equity to move away.


World is a work in progress. Western civilization to be precise. We've come along way in a million years. Law of jungle still default fall back way for doing things, but doesn't mean it cant be improved, modulated, transcended, altered, for better or worse of course, evolution, a species adaption to its environment has no ultimate guarantee of success. 21st century should be interesting.


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22 Nov 2021, 1:24 pm

It isn't politically correct to advocate for improvement when you're in a bucket of crabs, the other crabs will be offended.


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22 Nov 2021, 1:26 pm

I've never been politically correct. If i appear that way, it's only unintended.


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theprisoner
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22 Nov 2021, 1:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
theprisoner wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Businesses exist to make money. They are under no obligation to do anything else. With a doctor they have a skill set same as any professional. It's to make them money. They aren't obligated to care for anyone outside that context.
So if i'm a doctor and you are paraplegic who cant breathe, i can safely pull the plug on you, because your credit bounced. okay. Thats good to know. SO honorable you would die for your principles like that. And not object to the right of a heartless capitalistic american medical industry system and its model of doing business and its societal implications. It underlying anti-human stance, cash over life philosophy. so noble and brave of you to sacrifice your self like that. :roll: Social darwinism is the natural way after all. I mean we're just animals, nothing more than that , right.
Your argument fails because: (1) With over a half-million licensed and practicing physicians in America, one physician refusing to treat a patient means only that the patient still has over a half-million other licensed and practicing physicians from which to choose; (2) It relies on the "Cancel Culture" fallacy; and (3) It is hyperbolic nonsense.



Quote:
For the first year, people with high tetraplegia can expect to pay about a million dollars for care. Low tetraplegia produces about $769,000 in medical expenses, while paraplegia costs about $518,000. Injuries that produce incomplete motor function at any level cost an average of $347,000.
After the first year, costs tend to go down. Those with high tetraplegia incur costs of about $184,000 annually, compared to $113,000 for people with low tetraplegia. Paraplegia costs about $69,000 each year, while incomplete motor function produces the lowest costs, of about $42,000.


If a person spinal cord is damaged, they are not' fit to work'. They are disabled. They will have heavy costs. Spartan philosophy would say "euthanasia." A capitalist philosophy says "not my problem." a christian takes the attitude "there for the grace of god go i" a humane society like ours will take responsibility for the weaker members of its community. Is USA a human society? How humane? I think USA dosnt have a good track record in this area compared to other western nations, atleast as far as coverage goes. The point is social darwnish is barbaric and primitive and incompatible with 21st century realities.


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22 Nov 2021, 2:05 pm

Complicating practical solutions with hypothetical arguments.