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Kraichgauer
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12 Jan 2013, 1:24 am

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm personally a big believer in theistic evolution.


Good for you. I can't say whether or not God exists or if it is the God of the Bible. I can say that there is so much evidence for evolution that to deny it shows incredible ignorance of what is demonstrably real.

Many so-called Christian web sites that argue against evolution are such blatant LIARS that they bring no honor to Christ. They ignore much of the evidence for evolution and deny or distort what they do not ignore. They take pieces of quotations out of context in such a way to make it look like the person quoted meant the opposite of what he or she really said when you read the whole quotation from the original source. THAT is dishonest and I have no respect for such LIARS!

Truth is truth. IF evolution did not happen, God is a liar to plant so much evidence of so many different types that clearly shows it did happen, and so-called Christian web sites such as Answers in Genesis and Institute for Creation Research (to name two of the biggest liars) do nothing but turn people away from Christ by spreading LIES about what evidence exists.

I respect the honesty of the Catholic church at least on this issue.
Pope John Paul II wrote:
New knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory.

Of course, most of the denominations that argue the most vehemently against the observable fact of evolution also hate Catholics, so this statement by a Pope will do nothing to convince them. But at least it shows that not all Christian denominations are outrageously out of touch with demonstrable reality.


Thanks.
Incidentally, my own Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod has been trying to walk a tightrope on this matter. In order, I think, to satisfy two different view points, the LCMS official statement states while the Biblical account of Genesis is accepted, legitimate scientific theory is also accepted. Unfortunately, this has allowed for the growth of the anti-evolution crowd in my church body - and it's pissing me off. Oh well, I still voice my Pro-Darwinian opinions during Bible study.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



LKL
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12 Jan 2013, 1:36 am

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
ripped wrote:
No we are not apes.

While we share 98% of an ape's DNA, there are differences which cannot be explained by Darwin's theory of evolution either.
The most outstanding difference is that humans have only 23 chromosomes in their DNA, while apes have 24.
Humans have a layer of fat under their skin, while apes require body hair to maintain their warmth.
Every hair on the human body is aquiline - that is they are streamlined to go through water with the minimum of resistance. No kind of ape has the same aquiline hair.

Humans have webbing between their fingers and toes. No ape has this.

Not only are we not apes, there are strong arguments to suggest we did not evolve directly from apes.


Didn't you read the bit about our now knowing that human chromosome 2 is two ape chromosomes fused together? Whatever your sources, you are wrong sir. Besides the genetic evidence (not just chromosome 2, but the endogenous retroviruses and pseudogenes in the DNA of related species), there is the fossil record. The oldest hominid fossils are more ape-like with a clear progression to more human features over time. Educate yourself before spreading more misinformation.

You beat me to it.



TheBicyclingGuitarist
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12 Jan 2013, 7:52 am

LKL wrote:
TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
ripped wrote:
No we are not apes.

While we share 98% of an ape's DNA, there are differences which cannot be explained by Darwin's theory of evolution either.
The most outstanding difference is that humans have only 23 chromosomes in their DNA, while apes have 24.
Humans have a layer of fat under their skin, while apes require body hair to maintain their warmth.
Every hair on the human body is aquiline - that is they are streamlined to go through water with the minimum of resistance. No kind of ape has the same aquiline hair.

Humans have webbing between their fingers and toes. No ape has this.

Not only are we not apes, there are strong arguments to suggest we did not evolve directly from apes.


Didn't you read the bit about our now knowing that human chromosome 2 is two ape chromosomes fused together? Whatever your sources, you are wrong sir. Besides the genetic evidence (not just chromosome 2, but the endogenous retroviruses and pseudogenes in the DNA of related species), there is the fossil record. The oldest hominid fossils are more ape-like with a clear progression to more human features over time. Educate yourself before spreading more misinformation.

You beat me to it.


It really irks me that so many people are so badly misinformed about this subject. It is just as ridiculous and just as wrong as if half the adults in the USA seriously believed the earth is flat in spite of all evidence to the contrary. It IS that stupid, and there really is no excuse for such abysmal ignorance for anyone who has access to the internet. I could see wallowing in ignorance (especially if one has been LIED to by sources one trusts) back in the days of horse and buggy time, maybe even as recently as telegraph, radio or television time, but nowadays, when all the information of all the world is literally at one's fingertips 24/7? No excuse!

Most people who argue against the fact of evolution do so because they are basing their opinion on misinformation. Some places such as the Discovery Institute are especially sneaky about the way they ignore, distort or deny what is demonstrably real in order to try to sneak religion into science classrooms to transform the USA from a secular society into a theocracy (read their "Wedge" document which they admit is theirs even though it was "leaked" to the public and not officially published by them). Btw, secular does not mean a society with no religion. What it means is a society where no particular religion is forced upon you, which is most definitely what the founders of the USA clearly intended as shown not only by our government's first and most important documents but also by the public and private correspondence of the founders.


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12 Jan 2013, 8:01 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz6IxZsLwlo[/youtube]


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naturalplastic
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12 Jan 2013, 9:27 am

billiscool wrote:
no we are not. we were created by god. please stop thinking this way.


And God created us by the means of gradual evolution through natural selection. Evolution that included an ape-like phase.



CaptainTrips222
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12 Jan 2013, 10:15 am

naturalplastic wrote:
billiscool wrote:
no we are not. we were created by god. please stop thinking this way.


And God created us by the means of gradual evolution through natural selection. Evolution that included an ape-like phase.


I guess I can dig that. If that's the case, God wants us to be animal like. I just have a hard time thinking we just appeared. We screw outta she same hole we piss, we eat outta the same hole we speak outta, we use imperfect brains to decode that communication and have constant misunderstandings.... and we we're NOT animals?



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2013, 2:12 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
billiscool wrote:
no we are not. we were created by god. please stop thinking this way.


And God created us by the means of gradual evolution through natural selection. Evolution that included an ape-like phase.


God was rolling the dice.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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12 Jan 2013, 3:07 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
billiscool wrote:
no we are not. we were created by god. please stop thinking this way.


And God created us by the means of gradual evolution through natural selection. Evolution that included an ape-like phase.


Makes perfect sense to me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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12 Jan 2013, 4:53 pm

It is a nice feel good little theory, that I liked in the past.

... until you realize it makes god completely redundant.


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12 Jan 2013, 7:07 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFc3DDTPXXo[/youtube]


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ripped
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12 Jan 2013, 8:54 pm

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
ripped wrote:
No we are not apes.

While we share 98% of an ape's DNA, there are differences which cannot be explained by Darwin's theory of evolution either.
The most outstanding difference is that humans have only 23 chromosomes in their DNA, while apes have 24.
Humans have a layer of fat under their skin, while apes require body hair to maintain their warmth.
Every hair on the human body is aquiline - that is they are streamlined to go through water with the minimum of resistance. No kind of ape has the same aquiline hair.

Humans have webbing between their fingers and toes. No ape has this.

Not only are we not apes, there are strong arguments to suggest we did not evolve directly from apes.


Didn't you read the bit about our now knowing that human chromosome 2 is two ape chromosomes fused together? Whatever your sources, you are wrong sir. Besides the genetic evidence (not just chromosome 2, but the endogenous retroviruses and pseudogenes in the DNA of related species), there is the fossil record. The oldest hominid fossils are more ape-like with a clear progression to more human features over time. Educate yourself before spreading more misinformation.


My dear friend there is nothing in what I said which is untrue.

And you are quite correct, human chromosome 2 is two chromosomes fused together.
What neither you, nor the whole of the academic community can answer is through what evolutionary process two chromosomes could possibly be fused together?
There is no other species on the face of the earth where this has happened.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2013, 9:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Incidentally, my own Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod has been trying to walk a tightrope on this matter. In order, I think, to satisfy two different view points, the LCMS official statement states while the Biblical account of Genesis is accepted, legitimate scientific theory is also accepted. Unfortunately, this has allowed for the growth of the anti-evolution crowd in my church body - and it's pissing me off. Oh well, I still voice my Pro-Darwinian opinions during Bible study.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The Genesis story of creation taken -literally- is nonsense. Totally false nonsense. None of it is true, as it is stated. The Bible was written by late Bronze Age dudes who thought the sun and moon went around the earth which according to Genesis is -flat-. See the story of the sun and moon standing still over Gibeon in the Book of Joshua. The Bible isn't even good fiction. Tolkien's Silmarilion (which has a creation myth) is much better written.

Why do you support an organization which puts Utter Nonsense on the same level as well founded Scientific Theory?

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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13 Jan 2013, 12:37 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Incidentally, my own Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod has been trying to walk a tightrope on this matter. In order, I think, to satisfy two different view points, the LCMS official statement states while the Biblical account of Genesis is accepted, legitimate scientific theory is also accepted. Unfortunately, this has allowed for the growth of the anti-evolution crowd in my church body - and it's pissing me off. Oh well, I still voice my Pro-Darwinian opinions during Bible study.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The Genesis story of creation taken -literally- is nonsense. Totally false nonsense. None of it is true, as it is stated. The Bible was written by late Bronze Age dudes who thought the sun and moon went around the earth which according to Genesis is -flat-. See the story of the sun and moon standing still over Gibeon in the Book of Joshua. The Bible isn't even good fiction. Tolkien's Silmarilion (which has a creation myth) is much better written.

Why do you support an organization which puts Utter Nonsense on the same level as well founded Scientific Theory?

ruveyn


I know, I know Genesis is nonsense.
As for why I support the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod? Probably very much for the same reasons why you support your branch of Judaism, despite the many criticisms that can be leveled against them.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



androbot2084
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13 Jan 2013, 12:50 am

The first human was a robot.



Kraichgauer
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13 Jan 2013, 1:02 am

androbot2084 wrote:
The first human was a robot.


Finally! It all makes sense now!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



techstepgenr8tion
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13 Jan 2013, 1:24 am

Well, at least we know now not to let robots inseminate bigfoot.