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Misslizard
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14 Dec 2012, 3:21 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:

Which is that Northerners were a bunch of racists who didn't give a hoot about slavery; that Negroes were in fact better off as slaves; and that White Southerners were the true victims of oppression.


Huh???I never saw anything like that in my history books.
Please show the text book and the info you say is in there.

Well then, what was the slant that your textbooks took on the "War of Northern Aggression", emancipation, and reconstruction?

Raptor had never previously heard of the 14th amendment, and thinks that Pennsylvanians were a bunch of racists who didn't care about ending slavery, when Pennsylvania was a hotbed of abolitionist sentiment.

I have a text book from 1959,
The Story of Arkansas by Hazel Preston
Unit 5 The Civil war
This war has been called by various names.In the north at the time it was called the War of the Rebellion.Later it was known as the Civil War because it was fought by people within the same nation.Other names are the War between the States,the war of secession and the War for Southern Independence.
It was almost a civil war within some of the states.Many persons in Missouri,Kentucky and Maryland,which never seceded,fought in the Confederate army.Many in Arkansas,Tennessee,North Carolina and Virginia joined the Union forces.Even families were divided,brother fighting against brother.Arkansas suffered much because her people were divided.Some of the settlers had come from the Northern states,but some who had come from the Southern states fought for the Union.The Unionists feared raids from the Confederates,Confederates feared raids from the Unionists.
Worse than this,however there were lawless bands of men who joined neither army.They went through the state robbing,burning,even murdering others for their own profit.These outlaw gangs were called "bushwhackers" or "jayhawkers" and terrified both Confederates and Federals.Everyone feared these men who frequently disguised themselves in the gray uniforms of the "rebels" as the Confederates were often called,or the blue of the Union men.
Unit 6 Reconstruction The Carpetbag Government
President Lincoln had already approved the new state government under Isaac Murphy.The President was the friend of the war torn South.He treated the Confederate states as though they had never been out of the Union.He thought that as soon as the people of a state set up a government that was loyal to the Federal government,nothing more was necessary.The President said that it was only certain groups of people and not the whole state that had really opposed the Union.
If President Lincoln had lived,the story of the South would have been much different.

It goes on that the term carpetbagger became hated because of dishonest politicians and crooked Southerners,scalawags.
The text books I had were similar.I did not know that Texas was trying to re-write history.
Let's build a fire with those Texas books.

Just curious are you from PA AP??On the Main Line?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvan ... on_Society



Kraichgauer
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14 Dec 2012, 3:57 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Ironically, the only two generals who grasped Lincoln's understanding of how to conduct a modern war were the drunk Grant, and the madman, Sherman.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Lincoln asked for a barrel of whatever it was that Grant drank. As long as Grant was producing results, Lincoln could not care less about his sobriety. Actually it was Grant's smoking habits that did him. All those cigars lead to a case of stomach cancer (probably from the tobacco juice) which finally did him in.

Sherman was dead on right about the nature of war and how to fight it. He wrecked Georgia and then did twice as much to South Carolina where the secession began. Sherman said: The secession began in South Carolina and by God it was going to end there. And sure enough it did. Sherman invented modern war. War against civilians as well as armies.

Those two defective men brought the confederacy and the secession down.

ruveyn


I thought Grant died of throat cancer. Oh, well, he died miserably, regardless.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Misslizard
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14 Dec 2012, 3:59 pm

^^^^^^^I read he liked to dip his cigars in whiskey.



ArrantPariah
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14 Dec 2012, 7:10 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I have a text book from 1959,
The Story of Arkansas by Hazel Preston
Unit 5 The Civil war
This war has been called by various names.In the north at the time it was called the War of the Rebellion.Later it was known as the Civil War because it was fought by people within the same nation.Other names are the War between the States,the war of secession and the War for Southern Independence.
It was almost a civil war within some of the states.Many persons in Missouri,Kentucky and Maryland,which never seceded,fought in the Confederate army.Many in Arkansas,Tennessee,North Carolina and Virginia joined the Union forces.Even families were divided,brother fighting against brother.Arkansas suffered much because her people were divided.Some of the settlers had come from the Northern states,but some who had come from the Southern states fought for the Union.The Unionists feared raids from the Confederates,Confederates feared raids from the Unionists.
Worse than this,however there were lawless bands of men who joined neither army.They went through the state robbing,burning,even murdering others for their own profit.These outlaw gangs were called "bushwhackers" or "jayhawkers" and terrified both Confederates and Federals.Everyone feared these men who frequently disguised themselves in the gray uniforms of the "rebels" as the Confederates were often called,or the blue of the Union men.


See? Slavery doesn't even get a mention.

Misslizard wrote:
Unit 6 Reconstruction The Carpetbag Government
President Lincoln had already approved the new state government under Isaac Murphy.The President was the friend of the war torn South.He treated the Confederate states as though they had never been out of the Union.He thought that as soon as the people of a state set up a government that was loyal to the Federal government,nothing more was necessary.The President said that it was only certain groups of people and not the whole state that had really opposed the Union.
If President Lincoln had lived,the story of the South would have been much different.

It goes on that the term carpetbagger became hated because of dishonest politicians and crooked Southerners,scalawags.
The text books I had were similar.I did not know that Texas was trying to re-write history.

That is all quite one-sided hyperbole. There must have been some carpetbaggers and scalawags who were honest and well-intentioned.

Misslizard wrote:
Just curious are you from PA AP??On the Main Line?

No, but two of my great-grandfathers were on the Union side from PA. After the war, they homesteaded land that the government had appropriated from the Odawa Indians in Michigan.



Dox47
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14 Dec 2012, 7:21 pm

Misslizard wrote:
^^^^^^^I read he liked to dip his cigars in whiskey.


I don't think that was so much the problem as the smoking 20+ a day part... I can't imagine smoking that much, I mean I love my cigars and all, but 1-2 a day is usually about all I'd want to smoke.


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Misslizard
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14 Dec 2012, 7:25 pm

^^^^^^^I didn't print all of it,slavery was mentioned.
If you had folks from PA we could be related,ain't you thrilled to hear that.
The George Mitchell house that is still standing in Susquehannock State Park was built by an ancestor.Lancaster,co.
Howdy cousin :twisted:



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14 Dec 2012, 7:42 pm

My ancestors were from the Wellsboro area.



Misslizard
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14 Dec 2012, 7:59 pm

^^^^Pennsylvania Dutch?



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14 Dec 2012, 8:01 pm

Raptor wrote:
His reason for the 1863 expedition in to Pa wasn't about the Underground Railroad.


ruveyn wrote:
He was aiming for Philadelphia. The idea was to bring the chickens home to the Yankees.

To force the Army of the Potomac to come to Pennsylvania and fight and take the heat off of Virginia for a change. Moving the war into a union state would put pressure on northern politicians to end the war. If the Army of the Potomac could be defeated it would leave Washington vulnerable to be overrun by the Army of Northern Virgina.
The ultimate goal was to convince Lincoln to end the war but it was a longshot from the get-go. .

ruveyn wrote:
However he was stopped at Gettysburg and whipped thoroughly. Unfortunately that dunce Meade blew the chance to wipe out Lee's army and the war went on nearly another two years. No wonder Lincoln aged rapidly between 1863 and 1865. Between McClellan and Meade he gained a few wrinkles.

There has been all kinds of speculations on how that battle would have turned out by changing the variables. Longstreet has gotten a lot of blame for the confederate loss and, like you said, Meade has gotten a lot for not perusing Lee's army after the battle.


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15 Dec 2012, 1:21 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I have a text book from 1959,
The Story of Arkansas by Hazel Preston
Unit 5 The Civil war
This war has been called by various names.In the north at the time it was called the War of the Rebellion.Later it was known as the Civil War because it was fought by people within the same nation.Other names are the War between the States,the war of secession and the War for Southern Independence.
It was almost a civil war within some of the states.Many persons in Missouri,Kentucky and Maryland,which never seceded,fought in the Confederate army.Many in Arkansas,Tennessee,North Carolina and Virginia joined the Union forces.Even families were divided,brother fighting against brother.Arkansas suffered much because her people were divided.Some of the settlers had come from the Northern states,but some who had come from the Southern states fought for the Union.The Unionists feared raids from the Confederates,Confederates feared raids from the Unionists.
Worse than this,however there were lawless bands of men who joined neither army.They went through the state robbing,burning,even murdering others for their own profit.These outlaw gangs were called "bushwhackers" or "jayhawkers" and terrified both Confederates and Federals.Everyone feared these men who frequently disguised themselves in the gray uniforms of the "rebels" as the Confederates were often called,or the blue of the Union men.


See? Slavery doesn't even get a mention.

Misslizard wrote:
Unit 6 Reconstruction The Carpetbag Government
President Lincoln had already approved the new state government under Isaac Murphy.The President was the friend of the war torn South.He treated the Confederate states as though they had never been out of the Union.He thought that as soon as the people of a state set up a government that was loyal to the Federal government,nothing more was necessary.The President said that it was only certain groups of people and not the whole state that had really opposed the Union.
If President Lincoln had lived,the story of the South would have been much different.

It goes on that the term carpetbagger became hated because of dishonest politicians and crooked Southerners,scalawags.
The text books I had were similar.I did not know that Texas was trying to re-write history.

That is all quite one-sided hyperbole. There must have been some carpetbaggers and scalawags who were honest and well-intentioned.

Misslizard wrote:
Just curious are you from PA AP??On the Main Line?

No, but two of my great-grandfathers were on the Union side from PA. After the war, they homesteaded land that the government had appropriated from the Odawa Indians in Michigan.


From the Civil War and Reconstruction class I had taken in my college days, actually most of the so called carpet baggers were dedicated to the cause of helping the newly freed slaves, and more often than not were the victims of violence at the hands of night riders and the early KKK. While there were actually corrupt so called carpet baggers in charge of the reconstruction governments in the southern states, they were in truth no more corrupt than the antebellum or Confederate governments, and a lot less corrupt than the so called redeemed state governments after Reconstruction.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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15 Dec 2012, 8:30 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

From the Civil War and Reconstruction class I had taken in my college days, actually most of the so called carpet baggers were dedicated to the cause of helping the newly freed slaves, and more often than not were the victims of violence at the hands of night riders and the early KKK. While there were actually corrupt so called carpet baggers in charge of the reconstruction governments in the southern states, they were in truth no more corrupt than the antebellum or Confederate governments, and a lot less corrupt than the so called redeemed state governments after Reconstruction.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Reconstruction became a political train-wreck because of that drunkard, Andrew Johnson. Had Lincoln lived, reconstruction would be been a great deal less painful to the Southrons. For better or worse the Southron folk were and are countrymen to the rest of the population and should have been treated as such.

ruveyn



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15 Dec 2012, 3:34 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

From the Civil War and Reconstruction class I had taken in my college days, actually most of the so called carpet baggers were dedicated to the cause of helping the newly freed slaves, and more often than not were the victims of violence at the hands of night riders and the early KKK. While there were actually corrupt so called carpet baggers in charge of the reconstruction governments in the southern states, they were in truth no more corrupt than the antebellum or Confederate governments, and a lot less corrupt than the so called redeemed state governments after Reconstruction.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Reconstruction became a political train-wreck because of that drunkard, Andrew Johnson. Had Lincoln lived, reconstruction would be been a great deal less painful to the Southrons. For better or worse the Southron folk were and are countrymen to the rest of the population and should have been treated as such.

ruveyn


Reconstruction became a train wreck under Johnson because he hindered the Freedman's Bureau and the Radical Republicans at every step in order to keep freed blacks disenfranchised. Reactionary elements in the south - including the original Klan - were able to reassert themselves violently against Lincoln's plans to aid the freed blacks. While it's true that Lincoln had planned on treating the south fairly, he wasn't going to let them get away with forcing black Americans back into second class status. Unfortunately, his successor proved his sympathy for his fellow white southerners included hostility to the former slaves. Out of this was born they myth of the corrupt carpet bagger coming to fleece the noble, defeated confederacy.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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15 Dec 2012, 10:09 pm

Quote:
What does a conservative want?

To give easy access to lunatics to guns.



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15 Dec 2012, 10:15 pm

blunnet wrote:
Quote:
What does a conservative want?

To give easy access to lunatics to guns.


:roll:
Yeah, I figured it would come around to that.
It's a cheap shot but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


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15 Dec 2012, 10:16 pm

blunnet wrote:
Quote:
What does a conservative want?

To give easy access to lunatics to guns.


Back under the bridge you!


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15 Dec 2012, 10:27 pm

Dox47 wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Quote:
What does a conservative want?

To give easy access to lunatics to guns.


Back under the bridge you!


Hey! That's my bridge!

And, isn't universal access to weapons considered a sacred rite?