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Keniichi
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30 Nov 2012, 9:27 pm

They dont go hand in hand/together well, now do they?
Thoughts?


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Fnord
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30 Nov 2012, 9:44 pm

Religion is the socio-political expression of faith.

Our political system is embodied in personality cults that are based on the worship of unrealistic ideals.

Related? Definitely.


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Keniichi
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30 Nov 2012, 9:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
Religion is the socio-political expression of faith.

Our political system is embodied in personality cults that are based on the worship of unrealistic ideals.

Related? Definitely.

i know alot of people in real life who vote just for a politician ONLY because that politician has the same religion as they do.


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30 Nov 2012, 9:52 pm

Keniichi wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Religion is the socio-political expression of faith.

Our political system is embodied in personality cults that are based on the worship of unrealistic ideals.

Related? Definitely.

i know alot of people in real life who vote just for a politician ONLY because that politician has the same religion as they do.

Then they are fools who have wasted their votes.


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Kraichgauer
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01 Dec 2012, 7:37 am

Despite what conservatives maintain, there is a separation of church and state, and with very good reason. The last thing most of us want to see is some politician - or group of politicians - enforcing their religious views on the rest of us, even if we don't agree with them. Needless to say, there are reactionary elements who want their perception of religion taught in schools - whether it's school prayer, the teaching of creationism, the banning of certain books, etc. - that would push a single religious philosophy on our children. That, and regulation of/punishment of reproductive rights, are also religiously inspired.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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01 Dec 2012, 10:25 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Despite what conservatives maintain, there is a separation of church and state, and with very good reason. The last thing most of us want to see is some politician - or group of politicians - enforcing their religious views on the rest of us, even if we don't agree with them. Needless to say, there are reactionary elements who want their perception of religion taught in schools - whether it's school prayer, the teaching of creationism, the banning of certain books, etc. - that would push a single religious philosophy on our children. That, and regulation of/punishment of reproductive rights, are also religiously inspired.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Not every advocate of limited government has a religious axe to grind. The stereotype of limited government as some kind of Christian fundy is just that. A stereotype and an express of bigotry. The superduper pinko stinko Commie loving redistributionist egalitarian Democrat liberals often ( or many of them) are flat out bigoted and driven by stereotypical thinking. And they are often arrogant about it, too.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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01 Dec 2012, 7:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Despite what conservatives maintain, there is a separation of church and state, and with very good reason. The last thing most of us want to see is some politician - or group of politicians - enforcing their religious views on the rest of us, even if we don't agree with them. Needless to say, there are reactionary elements who want their perception of religion taught in schools - whether it's school prayer, the teaching of creationism, the banning of certain books, etc. - that would push a single religious philosophy on our children. That, and regulation of/punishment of reproductive rights, are also religiously inspired.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Not every advocate of limited government has a religious axe to grind. The stereotype of limited government as some kind of Christian fundy is just that. A stereotype and an express of bigotry. The superduper pinko stinko Commie loving redistributionist egalitarian Democrat liberals often ( or many of them) are flat out bigoted and driven by stereotypical thinking. And they are often arrogant about it, too.

ruveyn


I didn't think I ever mentioned people advocating limited government. Modern day conservatives actually have little to do with limited government - save for when it comes to business regulations. No, they want government to stick it's nose into people's personal lives.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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01 Dec 2012, 8:26 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
[

I didn't think I ever mentioned people advocating limited government. Modern day conservatives actually have little to do with limited government - save for when it comes to business regulations. No, they want government to stick it's nose into people's personal lives.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And your left wing friends would be busy redistributing wealth they did not create to give to Miserable and Suffering of the Eatth.

There are fascists and dictators on both sides of the aisle. And the one's with Bleeding Hearts are particularly obnoxious.

Would you save your money in any bank run by Barney Frank? I wouldn't.

ruveyn



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01 Dec 2012, 8:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
[

I didn't think I ever mentioned people advocating limited government. Modern day conservatives actually have little to do with limited government - save for when it comes to business regulations. No, they want government to stick it's nose into people's personal lives.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And your left wing friends would be busy redistributing wealth they did not create to give to Miserable and Suffering of the Eatth.

There are fascists and dictators on both sides of the aisle. And the one's with Bleeding Hearts are particularly obnoxious.

Would you save your money in any bank run by Barney Frank? I wouldn't.

ruveyn


Hey, I resemble that remark!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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01 Dec 2012, 9:40 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Quote:
No, they want government to stick it's nose into people's personal lives.

I’m always hearing this from the left.
Like how do we want government to stick its nose into people's personal lives?
Do you mean like abortions and gay rights?
Yes, it's no secret that most of us frown on the gay way of life and also abortions but that doesn’t mean we want to form a government agency to monitor and punish gays or to bomb abortion clinics.
Yes there are A FEW that sincerely want that and vote accordingly but they are too small (and shrinking) of a minority to have their way with government.


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Kraichgauer
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01 Dec 2012, 11:22 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
No, they want government to stick it's nose into people's personal lives.

I’m always hearing this from the left.
Like how do we want government to stick its nose into people's personal lives?
Do you mean like abortions and gay rights?
Yes, it's no secret that most of us frown on the gay way of life and also abortions but that doesn’t mean we want to form a government agency to monitor and punish gays or to bomb abortion clinics.
Yes there are A FEW that sincerely want that and vote accordingly but they are too small (and shrinking) of a minority to have their way with government.


As a matter of fact, those are personal matters that the government has no business involving itself in.
While, as I've said before in the past, I sympathize with the unborn fetus being alive, the fact of the matter is, trying to force women to receive medically unnecessary ultra sounds in order to humiliate and shame them into not seeking abortions - by government action - is monstrous. Rick Santorum's scheme to limit if not abolish contraceptive use - again by the government - is quite mad, but had gained quite a following for a time.
And why should the government have the right to tell two consenting adults that they can't engage in a homosexual relationship? How would you feel if the government told you that some lifestyle you were engaging in was unacceptable to part of the population? Would that give the government the right to dictate how you're supposed to behave?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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01 Dec 2012, 11:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
No, they want government to stick it's nose into people's personal lives.

I’m always hearing this from the left.
Like how do we want government to stick its nose into people's personal lives?
Do you mean like abortions and gay rights?
Yes, it's no secret that most of us frown on the gay way of life and also abortions but that doesn’t mean we want to form a government agency to monitor and punish gays or to bomb abortion clinics.
Yes there are A FEW that sincerely want that and vote accordingly but they are too small (and shrinking) of a minority to have their way with government.


As a matter of fact, those are personal matters that the government has no business involving itself in.
While, as I've said before in the past, I sympathize with the unborn fetus being alive, the fact of the matter is, trying to force women to receive medically unnecessary ultra sounds in order to humiliate and shame them into not seeking abortions - by government action - is monstrous. Rick Santorum's scheme to limit if not abolish contraceptive use - again by the government - is quite mad, but had gained quite a following for a time.
And why should the government have the right to tell two consenting adults that they can't engage in a homosexual relationship? How would you feel if the government told you that some lifestyle you were engaging in was unacceptable to part of the population? Would that give the government the right to dictate how you're supposed to behave?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

:roll:
Did you actually read my post? No, it appears not or at least not completely.
Even thinking that Santorum was going to get elected is paranoid enough. Believing that once in office he could or would even try to ban rubbers or whatever is beyond paranoid.


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Kraichgauer
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01 Dec 2012, 11:35 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
No, they want government to stick it's nose into people's personal lives.

I’m always hearing this from the left.
Like how do we want government to stick its nose into people's personal lives?
Do you mean like abortions and gay rights?
Yes, it's no secret that most of us frown on the gay way of life and also abortions but that doesn’t mean we want to form a government agency to monitor and punish gays or to bomb abortion clinics.
Yes there are A FEW that sincerely want that and vote accordingly but they are too small (and shrinking) of a minority to have their way with government.


As a matter of fact, those are personal matters that the government has no business involving itself in.
While, as I've said before in the past, I sympathize with the unborn fetus being alive, the fact of the matter is, trying to force women to receive medically unnecessary ultra sounds in order to humiliate and shame them into not seeking abortions - by government action - is monstrous. Rick Santorum's scheme to limit if not abolish contraceptive use - again by the government - is quite mad, but had gained quite a following for a time.
And why should the government have the right to tell two consenting adults that they can't engage in a homosexual relationship? How would you feel if the government told you that some lifestyle you were engaging in was unacceptable to part of the population? Would that give the government the right to dictate how you're supposed to behave?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

:roll:
Did you actually read my post? No, it appears not or at least not completely.
Even thinking that Santorum was going to get elected is paranoid enough. Believing that once in office he could or would even try to ban rubbers or whatever is beyond paranoid.


I knew the chances of Santorum getting elected were virtually nonexistent, but the fact of the matter is, his campaign against contraceptives had emboldened other right wing fanatics around the country to try outlawing them. And that would have been much more achievable by Santorum's fan club at the state level.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Raptor
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01 Dec 2012, 11:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
No, they want government to stick it's nose into people's personal lives.

I’m always hearing this from the left.
Like how do we want government to stick its nose into people's personal lives?
Do you mean like abortions and gay rights?
Yes, it's no secret that most of us frown on the gay way of life and also abortions but that doesn’t mean we want to form a government agency to monitor and punish gays or to bomb abortion clinics.
Yes there are A FEW that sincerely want that and vote accordingly but they are too small (and shrinking) of a minority to have their way with government.


As a matter of fact, those are personal matters that the government has no business involving itself in.
While, as I've said before in the past, I sympathize with the unborn fetus being alive, the fact of the matter is, trying to force women to receive medically unnecessary ultra sounds in order to humiliate and shame them into not seeking abortions - by government action - is monstrous. Rick Santorum's scheme to limit if not abolish contraceptive use - again by the government - is quite mad, but had gained quite a following for a time.
And why should the government have the right to tell two consenting adults that they can't engage in a homosexual relationship? How would you feel if the government told you that some lifestyle you were engaging in was unacceptable to part of the population? Would that give the government the right to dictate how you're supposed to behave?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

:roll:
Did you actually read my post? No, it appears not or at least not completely.
Even thinking that Santorum was going to get elected is paranoid enough. Believing that once in office he could or would even try to ban rubbers or whatever is beyond paranoid.


I knew the chances of Santorum getting elected were virtually nonexistent, but the fact of the matter is, his campaign against contraceptives had emboldened other right wing fanatics around the country to try outlawing them. And that would have been much more achievable by Santorum's fan club at the state level.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I’ll repeat:
“Yes, it's no secret that most of us frown on the gay way of life and also abortions but that doesn’t mean we want to form a government agency to monitor and punish gays or to bomb abortion clinics.
Yes there are A FEW that sincerely want that and vote accordingly but they are too small (and shrinking) of a minority to have their way with government.”


If the entire right wing is fanatical like you beleive then it stands to reason that the entire left wing, and yes there IS one, is fanatical in the opposite direction.


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Kraichgauer
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02 Dec 2012, 1:43 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
No, they want government to stick it's nose into people's personal lives.

I’m always hearing this from the left.
Like how do we want government to stick its nose into people's personal lives?
Do you mean like abortions and gay rights?
Yes, it's no secret that most of us frown on the gay way of life and also abortions but that doesn’t mean we want to form a government agency to monitor and punish gays or to bomb abortion clinics.
Yes there are A FEW that sincerely want that and vote accordingly but they are too small (and shrinking) of a minority to have their way with government.


As a matter of fact, those are personal matters that the government has no business involving itself in.
While, as I've said before in the past, I sympathize with the unborn fetus being alive, the fact of the matter is, trying to force women to receive medically unnecessary ultra sounds in order to humiliate and shame them into not seeking abortions - by government action - is monstrous. Rick Santorum's scheme to limit if not abolish contraceptive use - again by the government - is quite mad, but had gained quite a following for a time.
And why should the government have the right to tell two consenting adults that they can't engage in a homosexual relationship? How would you feel if the government told you that some lifestyle you were engaging in was unacceptable to part of the population? Would that give the government the right to dictate how you're supposed to behave?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

:roll:
Did you actually read my post? No, it appears not or at least not completely.
Even thinking that Santorum was going to get elected is paranoid enough. Believing that once in office he could or would even try to ban rubbers or whatever is beyond paranoid.


I knew the chances of Santorum getting elected were virtually nonexistent, but the fact of the matter is, his campaign against contraceptives had emboldened other right wing fanatics around the country to try outlawing them. And that would have been much more achievable by Santorum's fan club at the state level.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I’ll repeat:
“Yes, it's no secret that most of us frown on the gay way of life and also abortions but that doesn’t mean we want to form a government agency to monitor and punish gays or to bomb abortion clinics.
Yes there are A FEW that sincerely want that and vote accordingly but they are too small (and shrinking) of a minority to have their way with government.”


If the entire right wing is fanatical like you beleive then it stands to reason that the entire left wing, and yes there IS one, is fanatical in the opposite direction.


If that's so concerning gay rights, why is it that there's such an opposition to gay marriage? Seems to me that conservatives use the power of the state to keep gays second class citizens.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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02 Dec 2012, 8:44 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

If that's so concerning gay rights, why is it that there's such an opposition to gay marriage? Seems to me that conservatives use the power of the state to keep gays second class citizens.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The only right interest the state can have in interpersonal, voluntary sexual relations is to see to it that the children that issue from such a relation are not abused or neglected. This will simply not happen when homosexuals of either gender get together in the sack. It is none of the state's business if two adult males wish to bugger each other or two homosexual females wish to eat each other out. That is purely a private matter as long as it is voluntary.

ruveyn