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01001011
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14 Dec 2012, 10:53 pm

Raptor wrote:
Oh please. :roll:
Where have you seen people packing machineguns around for self defense, Afghanistan?


What is wrong do you think is packing with a machine gun or laying landmines in ones own backyard for self defense?



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15 Dec 2012, 1:36 am

vermontsavant wrote:
Raptor wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Quote:
i had venison in a balslmic vinagerette sauce for dinner and i am a reloader and killed this deer with ammo i made,so dont talk to me like im stupid.

You've already stated in a roundabout way that AR-15's and/or thier owners cause crime so it leaves one to wonder what you're up to....
One of those legitimate sporting use yahoo's?
i have never said AR15 owners cause crime.but im not interested in them


In an earlier post you seemed to imply that the world would be better off without them....


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15 Dec 2012, 1:38 am

UnLoser wrote:
, but don't try to pretend that well-implemented gun control doesn't drastically reduce the rate of gun-related death and injury.


Crux of the problem right there in bold. I did a lengthy thread on this, no one, and I mean no one, could show an instance where gun control lowered absolute levels of violence, only gun specific violence, which makes perfect sense.


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15 Dec 2012, 1:51 am

Raptor wrote:
Where have you seen people packing machineguns around for self defense, Afghanistan?
What is real gun control? Is there such a thing as artificial gun control?
And how would it reduce the likelihood of anything other than creating a new class of felon and leaving law abiding citizens to the wolves?


UnLoser wrote:
Suddenly enacting a ban on certain types of guns might have the effect of putting law-abiding gun owners on unequal footing with violent criminals(although I doubt it would make enough of a difference to effect the death statistics), but don't try to pretend that well-implemented gun control doesn't drastically reduce the rate of gun-related death and injury. There are obviously ways to implement gun control without leaving people to the wolves. If a sudden ban on certain guns would cause problems, then they could implement it over a period of many years with a cautious, intelligent approach.

So if I go to NYC or Boston which have very strict gun laws there's going to be less violent crime? Yeah right. :roll:
Your knowledge of laws and effects of them is so lacking that I don't know where to start with you....

UnLoser wrote:
My opinion is that guns have very valid uses for hunting, self-defense, and recreation. But I think there should be limits. I don't see any real reason to allow guns with a fast rate of fire and powerful rounds that make it easy to massacre dozens of people.

Can you by legal definition separate hunting guns and self defense guns from those spooky ones you think we'd be better off without?
Where would my M1 Garand fit in? Do you know what one is without looking it up? No, surely not by what you've already said.


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15 Dec 2012, 5:01 am

Raptor wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Raptor wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Quote:
i had venison in a balslmic vinagerette sauce for dinner and i am a reloader and killed this deer with ammo i made,so dont talk to me like im stupid.

You've already stated in a roundabout way that AR-15's and/or thier owners cause crime so it leaves one to wonder what you're up to....
One of those legitimate sporting use yahoo's?
i have never said AR15 owners cause crime.but im not interested in them


In an earlier post you seemed to imply that the world would be better off without them....
i dont believe and from personal experience know that most owners of handguns and automatic rifles would never hurt a flee.i live in vermont so everyone has guns.however if you flood the market with them you give criminals the chance to get there hands on them.im simply in favor of people voluntarely only owning guns they need which gives criminals less oportunity to steal or find puppets without criminal records to buy mass amounts of guns to then sell to criminals.but most of my neighbors have automatic weapons and i feel perfectly safe and ok with that.another thing is for example my landlord keeps a loaded 30-30 next to his door at all times and im sure a robber would be far more scared of that then a AR.one doesnt need semi autos to defend ones self,deer rifles and shotguns are if anything better for home defense


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16 Dec 2012, 12:30 pm

I don't really understand the value of the "assault weapons" ban. But I do believe in universal background checks on all sales and magazine size restrictions. I doubt anything will change until we get a string of really bloody killings. Worse than this.

The real threat to legal gun ownership is crazies with guns. And they will keep doing what they do.



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16 Dec 2012, 1:38 pm

simon_says wrote:
I don't really understand the value of the "assault weapons" ban.

Should have just left it at that.
simon_says wrote:
But I do believe in universal background checks on all sales and magazine size restrictions.

There are already background checks. It's called NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) and has been in effect since the 90's.
If you think the "assault weapon" ban is valueless what's the value in banning hi-capacity magazines?
There are probably tens of millions of hi-cap mags that are already in circulation. All a ban would do is raise the prices a little. And, no, don't expect us to just turn in our mags. They are my property, they were legal when I bought them, and I'll be keeping them.
simon_says wrote:
I doubt anything will change until we get a string of really bloody killings. Worse than this.

And it might not even change then. If new gun laws are passed and there are more massacres (and there will be) then what?

simon_says wrote:
The real threat to legal gun ownership is crazies with guns. And they will keep doing what they do.

And the only way to defend against a crazy with a gun is to shoot back.


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16 Dec 2012, 4:41 pm

Raptor wrote:
And the only way to defend against a crazy with a gun is to shoot back.


That logic is cut and dry. Well said.

Banning "Guns" will only make matters worse.
People will always find a way to get around the law and the black market will continue to thrive with un-registered weaponry.

As the old saying goes.

"The Best defense, is a good defense"

Purchase a gun for self defense. If someone threatens you, assess the situation and make a decisions. Pull the trigger if you have too.
Defend Yourself! That person has already made up his/her mind.


Best Regards,

Jake


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16 Dec 2012, 5:16 pm

"The best defense is offense". Yeah, definitely, we should have given assault weapons to all those kids. That would have solved everything.

zacb wrote:
From what I read, it sounds as if he was a loner and disturbed, as well as did not have any friends.
So what?

Quote:
On a second note, instead of banning guns (which have their uses)
Their uses include killing people, killing animals and solving problems by threatening to kill people.

Quote:
, why don't we ban toxic medicines like ritalin, Prozac, etc. which have very negative effects on a person's system?


The second you called medicines TOXIC , you have revealed yourself as a herald for anti-science thought.

Ritalin helps children with ADHD to keep some focus at school. I am not sure exactly why do you want to make them unable to do so.

Prozac is used to treat clinical depression. Which is something I wouldn't wish anyone to have.


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16 Dec 2012, 5:25 pm

The reason shooters target places like schools or malls or whatever is because the people there are vulnerable. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens will only make more people vulnerable.

The real issue seems to be how we handle severe mental illness in this country. There needs to be a place for these people to go, a parent can't be expected to handle an adult child who serves a potential threat to themselves or others. My mother has worked in the mental health field and in her professional opinion, there are a lot of dangerous people walking around that they can't do anything with. The warning signs were all there with Cho, Holmes, Loughner, Lanza.



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16 Dec 2012, 5:34 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

The second you called medicines TOXIC , you have revealed yourself as a herald for anti-science thought.

Ritalin helps children with ADHD to keep some focus at school. I am not sure exactly why do you want to make them unable to do so.

Prozac is used to treat clinical depression. Which is something I wouldn't wish anyone to have.


Prozac does increase suicidal thoughts, at least it did with me for the month I took it and I wasn't clinically depressed to begin with. Maybe it was a self-fulfilling prophecy after it was suggested that it could and I was the age one might start having those thoughts creep in but I did not have those thoughts before I took prozac and I did during and after. They hand out prescriptions for anti-depressants and medications in general way too liberally.



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16 Dec 2012, 5:38 pm

Quote:
The reason shooters target places like schools or malls or whatever is because the people there are vulnerable. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens will only make more people vulnerable.

So you mean that gun law is making us use these children as meat shields?

Quote:
The real issue seems to be how we handle severe mental illness in this country.
People keep saying the guy was crazy or mentally ill. By what diagnosis?

So far the only thing so far is that the perpretator of the kindergarden massacre was autistic. I really doubt anyone around here thinks autism is a mental illness.


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16 Dec 2012, 5:38 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Prozac does increase suicidal thoughts, at least it did with me for the month I took it and I wasn't clinically depressed to begin with. Maybe it was a self-fulfilling prophecy after it was suggested that it could and I was the age one might start having those thoughts creep in but I did not have those thoughts before I took prozac and I did during and after. They hand out prescriptions for anti-depressants and medications in general way too liberally.


Prozac does not do that with everyone. There are other anti-depressants that work with some people for whom Prozac is a dud.

ruveyn



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16 Dec 2012, 5:47 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Quote:
The reason shooters target places like schools or malls or whatever is because the people there are vulnerable. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens will only make more people vulnerable.

So you mean that gun law is making us use these children as meat shields?

Quote:
The real issue seems to be how we handle severe mental illness in this country.
People keep saying the guy was crazy or mentally ill. By what diagnosis?

So far the only thing so far is that the perpretator of the kindergarden massacre was autistic. I really doubt anyone around here thinks autism is a mental illness.


He's been described as severely disturbed and needing adult supervision. Given descriptions and his age, it's not a huge leap to speculate he was schizophrenic. I don't know if we'll ever know for sure. I have a heard time believing anybody would kill 27 people, including his mother and little children, and be in their right mind.



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16 Dec 2012, 5:49 pm

Quote:
He's been described as severely disturbed and needing adult supervision.
Finding it hard to find this bit of info.

Quote:
Given descriptions and his age, it's not a huge leap to speculate he was schizophrenic.
It actually is :/

Quote:
I have a heard time believing anybody would kill 27 people, including his mother and little children, and be in their right mind.
Maybe he wasn't in his right mind. That does not mean it was a form of mental illness. People without such illnesses get episodes of uncontrollable anger at times.

On the other hand, maybe the guy just has different morals than us and wanted to exert revenge on the world. For example, the full of Hitler's germany was not mentally ill. But they did do terrible things.

In fact, I might argue that being mentally ill decreases your chances to go through murder sprees.


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16 Dec 2012, 6:15 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Quote:
He's been described as severely disturbed and needing adult supervision.
Finding it hard to find this bit of info.

Quote:
Given descriptions and his age, it's not a huge leap to speculate he was schizophrenic.
It actually is :/

Quote:
I have a heard time believing anybody would kill 27 people, including his mother and little children, and be in their right mind.
Surely he wasn't in his right mind.

That does not mean it was a form of mental illness. People without such illnesses get episodes of uncontrollable anger at times.


It's speculation either way. The simplest and most likely answer is schizophrenia given the information that we have now at least in my opinion, I'd be interested in hearing your theory. A psychiatrist once told me that the early symptoms of schizophrenia can present themselves similiarly to Aspergers but then again I never saw that guy again given that thinking.