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MakaylaTheAspie
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12 Dec 2012, 1:32 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 ... 80786.html

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Huffington Post wrote:
PORTLAND, Ore. — A masked gunman wearing camouflage opened fire Tuesday in a busy Portland mall, leaving the gunman and two others dead and forcing the mall's Santa Claus and hundreds of Christmas shoppers and employees to flee or hide among store displays.

Austin Patty, 20, who works at Macy's, said he saw a man in a white mask carrying a rifle and wearing a bulletproof vest. He heard the gunman say, "I am the shooter," as if announcing himself. A series of rapid-fire shots in short succession followed as Christmas music played. Patty said he ducked to the ground and then ran.

His Macy's co-worker, Pam Moore, told The Associated Press the gunman was short, with dark hair. Witnesses said he started firing just outside Macy's in the food court of Clackamas Town Center.

Brance Wilson, the mall Santa, said he heard gunshots and dove for the floor. By the time he looked up, seconds later, everyone around him had cleared out. Merchandise was scattered in some stores as he made his way to the door.

"Santa will be back," Wilson said. "It's not going to keep Santa away from the mall."

Police said they have tentatively identified the gunman but would not release his name or give any information on a possible motive. Officials said a woman was also shot and was in serious condition at a Portland hospital.

"We have a young lady in the hospital fighting for her life right now," Clackamas County Sheriff Craig Roberts at a news conference late Tuesday.

Clackamas Town Center is one of the Portland area's biggest and busiest malls, with 185 stores and a 20-screen movie theater. It would remain closed at least through Wednesday, Roberts said.

Shaun Wik, 20, from Fairview, said he was Christmas shopping with his girlfriend and opened a fortune cookie at the food court. Inside was written: "Live for today. Remember yesterday. Think of tomorrow."

As he read it, he heard three shots. He heard a man he believes was the gunman shout, "Get down!" but Wik and his girlfriend ran. He heard seven or eight more shots. He didn't turn around.

"If I had looked back, I might not be standing here," Wik said. "I might have been one of the ones who got hit."

Kira Rowland told KGW-TV that she was shopping at Macy's with her infant son when the shots started.

"All of a sudden you hear two shots, which sounded like balloons popping," Rowland told the station. "Everybody got on the ground. I grabbed the baby from the stroller and got on the ground."

Rowland said she heard people screaming and crying.

"I put the baby back in the stroller and ran," Rowland said.

Holli Bautista, 28, said she was shopping at Macy's for a Christmas dress for her daughter when she heard pops that sounded like firecrackers.

"I heard people running and screaming and saying `Get out, there's somebody shooting,'" she told the AP.

She said hundreds of shoppers and mall employees started running, and she and dozens of other people were trying to escape through a department store exit.

Tiffany Turgetto and her husband were leaving Macy's through the first floor when they heard gunshots coming from the second floor of the mall. They were able to quickly leave through a Barnes & Noble bookstore before the police arrived and locked down the mall.

"I had left my phone at home. I was telling people to call 911. Surprisingly, people are around me, no one was calling 911. I think people were in shock."


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SickInDaHead
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12 Dec 2012, 3:10 am

Oh oh, somebody somewhere did something. Quick, to the Pass More Laws mobile.



John_Browning
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12 Dec 2012, 3:46 am

It will be interesting to find out if this was a gun-free "safe" zone. I expect the body armor to be more common as active shooters have more reason to fear people with legally carried guns returning fire. Body armor is not a magic force field and getting shot in a vest will still kick the crap out of you.

EDIT: Yep, it was at another gun free zone.


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12 Dec 2012, 4:39 am

[img][800:606]http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg[/img]

Is this going to be a regular thing now?

I'll give it....6 hours before I hear a politician say the term "Assualt Weapons Ban".


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12 Dec 2012, 5:14 am

Nice. Hear of a shooting and the first things anyone thinks to say is "oh crap, they're gonna try to take my guns." As it happens, I support the second amendment. But when this is the pro-gun side's first reaction to a shooting, is it any wonder that the anti-gun folks see them as a bunch of nuts who care more about their weapons than about, y'know, their fellow human beings?



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12 Dec 2012, 7:15 pm

mds_02 wrote:
Nice. Hear of a shooting and the first things anyone thinks to say is "oh crap, they're gonna try to take my guns." As it happens, I support the second amendment. But when this is the pro-gun side's first reaction to a shooting, is it any wonder that the anti-gun folks see them as a bunch of nuts who care more about their weapons than about, y'know, their fellow human beings?


It's the fact that every time there's a shooting the cry goes out for more gun control. And I for one am not interested in what the antis think of me.


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John_Browning
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13 Dec 2012, 1:55 am

mds_02 wrote:
Nice. Hear of a shooting and the first things anyone thinks to say is "oh crap, they're gonna try to take my guns." As it happens, I support the second amendment. But when this is the pro-gun side's first reaction to a shooting, is it any wonder that the anti-gun folks see them as a bunch of nuts who care more about their weapons than about, y'know, their fellow human beings?

It's not due to a lack of sympathy. As usual, the usual suspects start screaming for more of the same laws that don't work (they did this right on queue), and then it becomes my problem. Most people want to show some respect, but the gun control/confiscation talking points to seize on the tragedy start even before the spent brass cartridges have time to cool to ambient temperature, and they reject other contributing factors that take time to work out.


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13 Dec 2012, 2:01 am

My brother lives right across from this mall and I always played on the fake ship there they had in the play area until I got too big to play on it. Then they took it out. I was at that mall this past weekend with my parents. Then couple days later, this happened.


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MakaylaTheAspie
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13 Dec 2012, 2:04 am

So glad I don't live near Clackamas... :lol:

Northwest FTW!


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13 Dec 2012, 5:07 am

I heard at work that they closed the max station there and I wonder how my brother's girlfriend gets to work now. She takes the train from there and rides it downtown and now with the train not going there, I wonder how she gets to work now. Maybe she drives and pays to park it in the parking garage. My dad calls the mall Clacka My Ass. I find that hilarious so I call it that too.

They must have had a great view to watch except they can't see the mall from their unit.


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MrXxx
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13 Dec 2012, 11:27 am

John_Browning wrote:
As usual, the usual suspects start screaming for more of the same laws that don't work (they did this right on queue), and then it becomes my problem


I'm not anti-gun or pro-gun, and this is nothing more than an honest question, because the way you worded this kind of makes it appear that it's not your problem until someone starts crying "gun control!"

Surely you don't really think that random shootings are not your problem. Sorry, I guess that isn't really a question is it? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. I really can't believe you think it's really not your problem.

I mean, if it's not my problem or yours, or Joe Shmoe's down the street, whose problem is it?

(There's the question. 8) )


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13 Dec 2012, 12:09 pm

I had a glance of the perpetrator when checking my email. I wonder how long it will take for the Newsbots to conclude that he was part of the "goth culture"/some BS satanic cult by virtue of his stretched earlobes and his dark clothing. The real problem lies in several areas, most notably the individual's personal issues and the parents' inability to spot the warning signs or their selective ignorance in regards to them, the ease of which said individual can acquire (legally or illegally) weapons without anyone noticing anything "off" about the person and how various attempts at intervening have failed (if any attempts were made).



MakaylaTheAspie
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13 Dec 2012, 12:58 pm

CyborgUprising wrote:
I had a glance of the perpetrator when checking my email. I wonder how long it will take for the Newsbots to conclude that he was part of the "goth culture"/some BS satanic cult by virtue of his stretched earlobes and his dark clothing. The real problem lies in several areas, most notably the individual's personal issues and the parents' inability to spot the warning signs or their selective ignorance in regards to them, the ease of which said individual can acquire (legally or illegally) weapons without anyone noticing anything "off" about the person and how various attempts at intervening have failed (if any attempts were made).


The newscast a couple of days ago interviewed people he knew, and they all said that he was a pretty nice guy who didn't seem capable of something like that. My mom had a co-worker that actually went to school with him, and she said that he was a good kid.

It must have been an inner turmoil thing, or something related. I have no clue how it could have ended up like that. The investigators don't have a clue, either. :shrug:


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13 Dec 2012, 2:27 pm

The shooter was only 22 and that is the same age as my brother. That would mean he was born in 1990.


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13 Dec 2012, 3:30 pm

MrXxx wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
As usual, the usual suspects start screaming for more of the same laws that don't work (they did this right on queue), and then it becomes my problem


I'm not anti-gun or pro-gun, and this is nothing more than an honest question, because the way you worded this kind of makes it appear that it's not your problem until someone starts crying "gun control!"

Surely you don't really think that random shootings are not your problem. Sorry, I guess that isn't really a question is it? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. I really can't believe you think it's really not your problem.

I mean, if it's not my problem or yours, or Joe Shmoe's down the street, whose problem is it?

(There's the question. 8) )

Statistically, the mass shootings are a negligible problem in our overall violent crime rates, but make a great news story because they evoke an emotional response compared to a story about a crackhead killing another crackhead in the ghetto. Active shooters, especially those killing random people, are a symptom of a variety of social issues that are not simple.


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MrXxx
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13 Dec 2012, 3:37 pm

John_Browning wrote:
Statistically, the mass shootings are a negligible problem in our overall violent crime rates, but make a great news story because they evoke an emotional response compared to a story about a crackhead killing another crackhead in the ghetto. Active shooters, especially those killing random people, are a symptom of a variety of social issues that are not simple.


I couldn't agree with you more, but that doesn't really answer my question. I really was serious when I said that It's hard to believe you don't believe it's a problem. Probably not in comparison to other problems statistically, no, but it's still something kind of odd going on in that these kinds of shootings are clearly on the rise.

I don't think the answer is gun control either. It is far more complicated than that.

The difference between these shootings though, and crackheads in the ghetto, is that you and I probably avoid ghettos. This kind of thing seems to be creeping our way, don't you think? I don't have the answers. :shrug:


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I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...