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MrXxx
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19 Dec 2012, 1:03 pm

ouinon wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
This is because of claims that the shooter may have been autistic. ... If I had a brother, and he killed somebody, I would apologize to the family on behalf of my family. ... This, although not quite the same, is quite a similar situation.

... Autism has never been a reason claimed for drone attacks and recent war tragedies. ... Neither I nor anyone I know, nor anyone with anything in common with me, are responsible for any of them. War is a political act. I'm apolitical. ... Sandy Hook killings [ have ] nothing to do with politics as far as I'm concerned.

Many people think Aspies have no empathy. This is an opportunity to prove them wrong. It's that simple, and doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

You don't then, as an American citizen, feel in any way responsible for what the USA does?

You don't feel the need to express grief/sympathy with the families who have lost children to American drone strikes because what the USA, your country, your elected representatives, does has nothing to do with you? Whereas what one lone American male does is somehow your concern, just because he is on the autism spectrum like you ... or just because you are afraid of what people will think of you because of it?


You can change the subject all you want. I'm not getting involved in your agenda. Period.

I'm frankly sick of people crapping on gestures of kindness just because they don't fit into their own political agendas.

I'm not apologizing for my actions just because they aren't enough for you.

If these issues are so all fired important to you, why are you wasting your time crapping on other's well intentioned efforts? Go do something to support your own agenda, instead of this. This doesn't help your cause. All it does is put an unfavorable light on you.


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ouinon
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20 Dec 2012, 2:33 am

MrXxx wrote:
I'm frankly sick of people crapping on gestures of kindness just because they don't fit into their own political agendas.

If I believed that your threads really were about "kindness" I would probably not have felt the need to comment in this way on them, but as I have now said a couple of times I think that they seem more like self-interested ingratiating self-protective anxious attempts to ward off/preempt a backlash against people on the autism spectrum, ( because of Adam Lanza's being referred to as Aspergers ), to "prove" that we are in fact capable of empathy.
MrXxx wrote:
This is an opportunity to prove them wrong.

I'm sorry if this looks as if I "have an agenda". I just dislike pretence/fake sympathy etc v much and what it often, by omission, ends up looking like ( unjustified preferences/favouring of certain groups of people ).

What does your sympathy with the victims' families of Sandy Hook *feel* like? :?

It doesn't look v real to me from where I am, but perhaps that's because of all the ways in which you have "framed it" with arguments about proving people wrong, proving that we are capable of empathy, worrying about the consequences of people believing that Adam Lanza is on the spectrum, implying that your interest is based on the sort of "responsibility" you feel as a fellow aspie, as if autism was/may actually have been an important factor, etc, etc etc.

Don't understand why you think that I have an agenda. But having read a few more of the other threads on WP about this whole event/issue I am beginning to understand just how scared a lot of people on the spectrum ( and their families ) are about the backlash against us that this may cause, and was v aware of this when seeing my son's formteacher about something else the day before yesterday she told me that he had been held back for a couple of minutes at the end of a class a couple of weeks ago now, for apparently threatening to cut the sweatshirt of one of two fellow students who have been regularly teasing him in a particular class. Luckily the teachers all like my son, ( he's a model pupil :lol ... so far ... ) and understood that he had no intention of genuinely cutting someone's sweatshirt and had simply been expressing how annoyed he was by these two ( known troublemaker ) students' behaviour to him ... but ... I thought of Adam Lanza and wondered if any of the teachers, or students, had made a connection ... and how this might express itself. ...

Do you really genuinely believe that your threads are about/expressing kindness or even empathy? They look more like calculated and insecurity/fear-driven "performances/appearances" of sympathy to me. :(
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Surfman
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20 Dec 2012, 4:34 am

I gave genuine condolences to all those affected by this sad tragedy. I cried a bit. So yeah, I know I'm not the only one too, many members here have children of our own. And I'm not just being a show pony for others, no 'forced' sorrow. That might be the case with you, but I am genuinely very sad right now.

ouinon, I think what you are doing here is lack of theory of mind [duh]
many people are really really hurting right now
[even if you are not because of aspergers syndrome]
you really need to grasp that dude,
if you expect NT to show sympathy for the autistic condition
you can start by showing some sympathy for theirs
especially at this juncture in time



ouinon
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20 Dec 2012, 5:36 am

Surfman wrote:
I gave genuine condolences to all those affected by this sad tragedy. I cried a bit. So yeah, I know I'm not the only one too, many members here have children of our own. And I'm not just being a show pony for others, no 'forced' sorrow. That might be the case with you, but I am genuinely very sad right now.

ouinon, I think what you are doing here is lack of theory of mind [duh]. Many people are really really hurting right now [even if you are not because of aspergers syndrome] you really need to grasp that dude. If you expect NT to show sympathy for the autistic condition you can start by showing some sympathy for theirs especially at this juncture in time.

Yes, I realise that I may have trouble understanding others' feelings because of being on the spectrum, for instance it is only just dawning on me how scared people are that this will negatively affect attitudes to/beliefs about and treatment of/behaviour towards people on the spectrum, as I said above.

But about feeling sad about this particular massacre ... if I felt sad about every senseless killing/death reported in the media I would feel sad all the time, unendingly sad. ... [ Ed. In fact I think I do. :( ]

I generally just feel anger that people kill others, innocent others, etc. And occasionally I feel specially sad about a particular death or tragedy; I cried massively on hearing about the Twin Towers for example, and when Princess Diana died. But I would not create or post on a thread expressing sympathy with victims of any such incident because if one why not *all* the other "less popular" tragedies, the unreported/less visible, the thousands of children dying faceless, unnamed, etc? :(

I don't understand the reasons for a special thread about these particular deaths, here on WP, :? as if it has something especially to do with us, people on the spectrum, more than the deaths of hundreds in factory fires, or recent tornadoes, or in Afghanistan, Africa, the Middle East etc. That's all. I really really do not get why special threads have been created about this particular event and not about all the other mass killings or deaths occurring constantly around the world ... except in so far as it represents insecurity and fear of backlash and/or feelings of misplaced responsibility for Adam Lanza's actions, etc as I've already said. :)

Would a thread about the constant continuing deaths of children in Afghanistan get stickied? :?
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Surfman
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20 Dec 2012, 6:03 am

I'm reading the pessimists guide to history, earthquakes tidal waves firs ships sinking asteroids cyclones 100,000 dead 3 million dead pol pot tornadoes volcanoes

history shows massive loss of life, this is but a blip, but regarding these threads the relativity for this community is direct
and that is why we are all talking about it

I understand how you want everyone to share your sense of relativity
But one of our own has done a terrible thing, so
please not now please

If you want to talk Palestine or drug injury/death
that is another time and place

The only political accompanyment to this tragedy should be the issue of autistic bullycide
and whether parenting or medication or video games or guns affected Lanza
which is the other side of this terrible coin



MrXxx
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20 Dec 2012, 11:14 am

ouinon wrote:
Do you really genuinely believe that your threads are about/expressing kindness or even empathy? They look more like calculated and insecurity/fear-driven "performances/appearances" of sympathy to me. :(
.


All I can say is that those are assumptions you're making. :shrug: They are not fear driven, politically driven, or self serving. If there were a way I could have done it without my username attached to it, I would have. I could have used a sock puppet account, but if I did, and that came out, somebody would have assumed something was wrong with doing that too.


It was a nice thing to do so I did it. It's as simple as that.

Sorry if I can't please, placate and include everyone. I'm just one human being doing as much as I can. Every time anybody does something like this, somebody calls their motivation into question. Nothing new about that, but it does get a little annoying because it is reactions like that that can cause others not to want to do anything at all.

I won't let it stop me. :wink:


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I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...


MrXxx
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20 Dec 2012, 11:18 am

By the way, you may have missed that in other ways I have also been expressing the feeling that some of us may actually be at least in part to blame for the hysteria over Lanza possibly having Asperger Syndrome.

I don't really care whether he did or not. It's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

Seems the M.E. investigating the case feels the same, and that's a very good thing.


_________________
I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...


Surfman
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20 Dec 2012, 1:53 pm

MrXxx wrote:
By the way, you may have missed that in other ways I have also been expressing the feeling that some of us may actually be at least in part to blame for the hysteria over Lanza possibly having Asperger Syndrome.

I don't really care whether he did or not. It's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

Seems the M.E. investigating the case feels the same, and that's a very good thing.


all our media in NZ never mentions asd's all they talk about is gun law, as far as preventative measures go
no on in NZ is putting forward asd's as reasons or contributing factors, its never mentioned except for the first day