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MrXxx
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17 Dec 2012, 11:08 am

Fnord wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
... I have asked if the following thread might be stickied, but haven't heard yet.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218321.html

I really wish that one would take off more so than the others. IMHO it would make a very positive statement about us all as WP members, and the AS community as a whole, no matter what the truth turns out to be.

That thread is a great idea!

I haven't posted there 'cuz everything I can think of reads like a sappy Hallmark card, and those people deserve way more than that.


I agree. I'm usually not much of one for "Hallmark" like sentiments, as they seem kind of sappy to me usually. But that's the whole point. It's not for me. It's for them. And right now, even what might seem to me to be sappy under normal circumstances, may be just what they need to read and hear.

It's not about us.

It's about them.


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17 Dec 2012, 11:15 am

MrXxx wrote:
Fnord wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
... I have asked if the following thread might be stickied, but haven't heard yet.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218321.html

I really wish that one would take off more so than the others. IMHO it would make a very positive statement about us all as WP members, and the AS community as a whole, no matter what the truth turns out to be.
That thread is a great idea! I haven't posted there 'cuz everything I can think of reads like a sappy Hallmark card, and those people deserve way more than that.
I agree. I'm usually not much of one for "Hallmark" like sentiments, as they seem kind of sappy to me usually. But that's the whole point. It's not for me. It's for them. And right now, even what might seem to me to be sappy under normal circumstances, may be just what they need to read and hear. It's not about us. It's about them.

Point taken ... I'll think of something ... thanx!


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MrXxx
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17 Dec 2012, 12:59 pm

[Move from General Autism to Autism Politics, Activism and Media Representation}


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17 Dec 2012, 1:49 pm

pensieve wrote:
ouinon wrote:
Maybe it was a case of him not being medicated.

Medication can have some pretty severe side effects, but not always. Sometimes it actually alleviates the behaviour.


Please dont insinuate BS like that. Do you want everyone force medicated?????
Medication is a poor cousin to talk therapy and time expensive and superior other treatments

They throw a pill at someone because ITS CHEAPER FOR THE STATE, AND EXPERIMENTATION PURPOSES check this site for harm caused by those ON medication http://ssristories.com/



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17 Dec 2012, 2:24 pm

Surfman wrote:
pensieve wrote:
ouinon wrote:
Maybe it was a case of him not being medicated.

Medication can have some pretty severe side effects, but not always. Sometimes it actually alleviates the behaviour.


Please dont insinuate BS like that. Do you want everyone force medicated?????
Medication is a poor cousin to talk therapy and time expensive and superior other treatments

They throw a pill at someone because ITS CHEAPER FOR THE STATE, AND EXPERIMENTATION PURPOSES check this site for harm caused by those ON medication http://ssristories.com/


I am against forced medication, but I also saw this link earlier today:

Look for the bit about Laura's Law:

http://janisjourney.org/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=94



ouinon
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18 Dec 2012, 2:15 am

Verdandi wrote:
Surfman wrote:
pensieve wrote:
ouinon wrote:
Personally I suspect medication and/or food-opioid induced/aggravated mental disturbance, ( he was very thin apparently often a sign of gluten-intolerance, or other chemical intolerance, and/or metabolic issues generally, vitamin or mineral deficiencies and consequently fragile/explosive mental states ), but unfortunately the image of the shy quiet oddly dressed loner with the page-boy haircut and monosyllabic speech/responses to questions, the briefcase he was so attached to, and his love of computer games is now once again associated with a tendency to kill. :(
This theory has been going around but I got to say if it wasn't for my medication I would still be a very angry person with violent thoughts.Maybe it was a case of him not being medicated. Medication can have some pretty severe side effects, but not always. Sometimes it actually alleviates the behaviour.

Please dont insinuate BS like that. Do you want everyone force medicated????? Medication is a poor cousin to talk therapy and time expensive and superior other treatments. They throw a pill at someone because ITS CHEAPER FOR THE STATE, AND EXPERIMENTATION PURPOSES. Check this site for harm caused by those ON medication http://ssristories.com/
I am against forced medication, but I also saw this link earlier today: Look for the bit about Laura's Law:

http://janisjourney.org/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=94

Medication and/or some other *chemical intolerance*, ( eg. the most common one: food, which can cause all kinds of mental-health problems ranging from anxiety and depression, through mood disorder/manic-depression, to obsessive compulsive behaviours, and schizophrenia to full-blown psychotic episodes, whether because of a reaction to a particular food/group of foods or because of crucial vitamin and/or mineral deficiencies ).

I think Adam Lanza's physical state, gaunt/haggard face, extreme thinness etc, in the last photo of him point to a serious/profound biochemical/metabolic imbalance of some sort, which could have been caused by either meds/drugs or food ( in which case meds *may* have helped counteract the effects of the food intolerance ... but only by gradually increasing the dose, because the effects of food-intolerance tend to get steadily worse and more complex/multi-symptomed as get older, unless stop eating the problem food of course ).

It's *possible* that "talking therapies" might have had an effect by deconstructing the "dramas" likely to "set him off"/by helping him to detach from them ... though when you're out of your head on wheat and dairy opioids ( pizza :D ) and sugar ( icecream, soda, etc ), it's difficult *not* to believe in the earth shattering nature of your parents' divorce, or in the imminent end of the ruling world order, because opioids make dreams seem real and domestic trauma appear like wars between the gods, ( especially if you're on the spectrum and prone to seeing things in black and white/comic book style with no shades of grey ) ... and when you're lost in a (bio)chemical fog of food intolerance ( or med/drug reactions ) it's v difficult to see outside of it. :(

I disagree with forced medication ... and would suggest that anyone with any sort of mental illness tries ( and/or receives the necessary support ) to follow an exclusion diet of at least a week, preferably 10 days, before even thinking of taking medication/drugs for it because so many cases of serious even violent mental-illness have been exposed as food-related by doing so. I probably wouldn't advocate or campaign for "forced exclusion diets", :lol but it would be great if a week of eating only the "safest" foods, ( ie. certain non-starchy and non-goitroid etc vegetables and fish ) became society's very first response to mental illness. :)

I suppose I no longer believe in "evil" or in people being autonomously "bad" or "vicious". When people *do* "bad" things I now tend to believe that the entire universe, most immediately their physical/chemical state/"environment", led to it. I wish we knew more about it.

PS. Verdandi and/or Surfman, the quotes in your posts have me saying what Pensieve actually said. :)
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MrXxx
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18 Dec 2012, 8:10 am

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of this and some other posts I've made since the shootings. Maybe I'm being to ambiguous. Maybe just generally unclear.

There is one issue related to this event that we all, I think, know needs to be addressed. We talk about it all the time, and debate over what ought to be done about it. Debate is good, but actions are what really cause change.

That said, I'm asking as many users as possible to take a few minutes of time out from all the debating, and actually DO something that may make a difference. Please visit the following post to see what I mean. A New York Times Reporter has quoted one of the posts in the following thread. <-- LINK The media is taking notice. If this thread catches fire with a lot more posts, the message just may get out there and make a difference:


http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218321.html


Let's light that thread on fire!


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ouinon
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18 Dec 2012, 9:23 am

MrXxx wrote:
A lot of people seem to be missing the point of this and some other posts I've made since the shootings. Maybe I'm being to ambiguous. Maybe just generally unclear.

There is one issue related to this event that we all, I think, know needs to be addressed. We talk about it all the time, and debate over what ought to be done about it. Debate is good, but actions are what really cause change.

I'm asking as many users as possible to take a few minutes of time out from all the debating, and actually DO something that may make a difference. Please visit the following post to see what I mean. [url=http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218424.html]A New York Times Reporter has quoted one of the posts in the following thread. ... If this thread catches fire with a lot more posts, the message just may get out there and make a difference.

Must say I had trouble following and understanding the point of your opening post, especially with a thread title like "The Truth" which led me to think that it was about what ( might ) *really* have happened, why Adam Lanza became a killer.

About your thread re. condolences: I think that actually many many people on the spectrum are if anything hypersensitive to people's suffering, to abuse, to violence, etc, and find it all so overwhelming that shut it out, or prefer not to think about it at all ... but when they do some of us, but definitely me, see no reason to send condolences to this group of families/bereaved in particular, as opposed for example to the hundreds of grieving families in Afghanistan or Pakistan or the Yemen who have lost their children, and other innocent family members, to drone attacks by the USA, and for whom the American president does most definitely *not* weep.

Why express more mourning or commiseration for the children killed by Adam Lanza than for the many many many more killed by remote-controlled American drones? I don't understand why you want us to, unless you are simply worried about people thinking badly of you and others on the autism spectrum, which doesn't seem like a very sympathetic reason for extending condolences to anyone.

What about sending condolences to the hundreds of families who have lost children in Afghanistan, Yemen, etc as a result of drones controlled and authorised by people who see those foreign children's deaths as mere "bug splats" or "lawn mowing" or "collateral damage" ... people apparently with no empathy at all unless said child is white or respectably American? :(
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18 Dec 2012, 10:08 am

In fact you could say that Adam Lanza was acting out the "character"/role of the USA to perfection, though on a *much* smaller scale; armed to the teeth, killing people that he/the USA has decided constitutes an enemy, and with them lots of incidental victims, ( because they were running around screaming, making a lot of noise, and perceived to be a threat to his mission, as American soldiers have killed, and continue to kill, innocent people running around near strike-zones, people coming to rescue/save victims, etc ).

Adam apparently played Call of Duty for hours day after day; that game is modelled on and glorifies the American military machine, which has soldiers/troops in something like 75 countries, and kills thousands of people on the scantiest of data, ( often reports made by people living there in return for money from American forces/Intelligence Agencies or to settle a score ), sometimes simply for carrying wood/sticks for a fire, ( which was mistaken for rifles ) or gathering for a funeral, because they "look suspicious".

In what way did Adam Lanza behave differently? He copied the USA's military activity with remarkable fidelity.
.



Last edited by ouinon on 18 Dec 2012, 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

MrXxx
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18 Dec 2012, 10:09 am

ouinon wrote:
Why express more mourning or commiseration for the children killed by Adam Lanza than for the many many many more killed by remote-controlled American drones? I don't understand why you want us to, unless you are simply worried about people thinking badly of you and others on the autism spectrum, which doesn't seem like a very sympathetic reason for extending condolences to anyone.


Who said we should show more for them than for others? I didn't.

Those who wish to, are.

Those who don't wish to, don't.

If it's not in your heart to do so, don't. I'm not telling anyone they should.

ouinon wrote:
What about sending condolences to the hundreds of families who have lost children in Afghanistan, Yemen, etc as a result of drones controlled and authorised by people who see those foreign children's deaths as mere "bug splats" or "lawn mowing" or "collateral damage" ... people apparently with no empathy at all unless said child is white or respectably American? :(
.


No one is stopping you.

Tell you what. I won't judge you for not wanting to post there. It would be nice if you didn't judge me. Fair enough?


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I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...


ouinon
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18 Dec 2012, 10:12 am

MrXxx wrote:
Who said we should show more for them than for others? I didn't.

I must have missed all the other threads that you have posted to extend condolences to the hundreds of grieving families in Afghanistan, Yemen etc.



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18 Dec 2012, 10:20 am

ouinon wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
Who said we should show more for them than for others? I didn't.

I must have missed all the other threads that you have posted to extend condolences to the hundreds of grieving families in Afghanistan, Yemen etc.


Obviously you didn't. Care to point out where I ever said we should show more for the victims in Connecticut than for anyone else? Absence of posts about others is proof of nothing.

You seem to be insinuating I may be racist. A false assumption that would reveal how little you really know about me. Let's not go there, shall we?


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I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...


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18 Dec 2012, 10:32 am

MrXxx wrote:
... Care to point out where I ever said we should show more for the victims in Connecticut than for anyone else? Absence of posts about others is proof of nothing.

You seem to be insinuating I may be racist.

No, I am not insinuating racism on your part. I'm speculating that is it "defensiveness" ( about being one of a group that this event risks making "look bad" ) which has prompted you to post these threads ... and that defending one's own group from "infamy"/a perceived threat is unfortunately v often precisely how other even more deadly forms of "partiality" or prejudice remain entrenched or are even affirmed, by "omission".

But I am willing to accept that this impression ( of "defensiveness" ) may be erroneous ... ... ...

Why did you decide to post these threads, especially the condolence thread, ( and get it stickied too ) about this event/tragedy in particular, and not the far greater ones in Afghanistan for instance, or any mass fatality, road accident or factory explosion/fire? What was it about this particular event which led you to wish to publically express sympathy for its victims etc?
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18 Dec 2012, 10:48 am

chris5000 wrote:
lets not forget all the weddings and schools the united states has drone bombed in Pakistan this year or the 22 children stabbed to death in a school in china the very same day


Thank you!

The USA is so self-sufficent about news it is like 'they' often have no idea about perspective internationally.

I moved out of USA culture 15 years ago to Britian. I will be returning. Great Britian spends quite a bit of time interested in what else is going on in the world. IMO since they origionally pretty well own most of the civilized world for a while. I am not sure they care any more but are interested in whats happened where they might holiday or go to do for charity work/holiday. Class societies like England do accept suffering sort of like Indian Cast systems.

My view is there is a LOT of dark stuff and everyone should help stop violence getting honored as entertainment.

Spocks Daughter



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18 Dec 2012, 10:50 am

ouinon wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
... Care to point out where I ever said we should show more for the victims in Connecticut than for anyone else? Absence of posts about others is proof of nothing.

You seem to be insinuating I may be racist.

No, I am not insinuating racism on your part. I'm speculating that is it "defensiveness" ( about being one of a group that this event risks making "look bad" ) which has prompted you to post these threads ... and that defending one's own group from "infamy"/a perceived threat is unfortunately v often precisely how other even more deadly forms of "partiality" or prejudice remain entrenched or are even affirmed, by "omission".

But I am willing to accept that this impression ( of "defensiveness" ) may be erroneous ... ... ...

Why did you decide to post these threads, especially the condolence thread, ( and get it stickied too ) about this event/tragedy in particular, and not the far greater ones in Afghanistan for instance, or any mass fatality, road accident or factory explosion/fire? What was it about this particular event which led you to wish to publically express sympathy for its victims etc?
.


First of all, sorry for missing your real point. I accept that this isn't about race. I'm sure glad it isn't.

You would be right on the first part, that this is because of claims that the shooter may have been autistic. Of course it is. That should answer your question about "why" as well. Autism has never been a reason claimed for drone attacks and recent war tragedies.

If I had a bother, and he killed somebody, I would apologize to the family on behalf of my family. It makes perfect sense to me to do so. This, although not quite the same, is quite a similar situation.

Acts of war are not. Neither I nor anyone I know, nor anyone with anything in common with me, are responsible for any of them. War is a politica act. I'm apolitical. As much as people are politicizing the Sandy Hook killings, it has nothing to do with politics as far as I'm concerned.

Many people think Aspies have no empathy. This is an opportunity to prove them wrong. It's that simple, and doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.


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I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...