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DVCal
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19 Dec 2012, 1:08 am

emimeni wrote:
DVCal wrote:
Teenagers, I am OK with them having a choice, but maybe 6 and under it shouldn't be a choice. Don't worry they will grateful once they are cure of their defect.


How do you know if they'll be grateful? That's right. You don't.

I agree children threeish to fiveish or under shouldn't have a choice, but still.


Even if they aren't grateful they probably won't remember.



Oodain
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19 Dec 2012, 2:13 am

does that make it okay??

besides a cure is unrealstic, treatment sure, but a cure implies removing the cause and since that would require a substantial rewiring of the brain it simply wont happen on any timescale relevant to us.


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Surfman
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19 Dec 2012, 2:21 am

Curing stupidity like this thread would be a better option



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Sea Gull
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19 Dec 2012, 2:44 am

There can be no cure.

You cure something that was once normal, but then got damaged/sick at some point.

We were never normal. We were born this way. Our brains developed differently from the very beginning.


To "cure" us basically means to destroy our entire self, down to the core.


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DVCal
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19 Dec 2012, 3:25 am

Unseen wrote:
There can be no cure.

You cure something that was once normal, but then got damaged/sick at some point.

We were never normal. We were born this way. Our brains developed differently from the very beginning.


To "cure" us basically means to destroy our entire self, down to the core.


I disagree, people with congenital disorders, which I considered autism or aspergers to be, can be cured. Think about a child born with degenerative disorder, the child was never normal, that doesn't mean we can't search for a cure for this child. FYI if you have autism/aspergers you are damaged, either at birth or shortly after.



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Sea Gull
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19 Dec 2012, 3:39 am

Ok, this is one way to look at it.

I just happen to have a different point of view - I don't think "damage" ever happened. It developed like this from the very beginning - the moment of conception. It was meant to follow this path and it followed it.

In other words - autism is not my disorder. It is my nature - just like hair or eye color.


I know this sounds weird and radical... but I believe in it. And it makes me feel a little better about being myself :)


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Pileo
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19 Dec 2012, 3:53 am

Quote:
does that make it okay??


Is getting your newborn a circumcision okay? Arguing the rights of children and babies is a whole other can of beans.



Oodain
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19 Dec 2012, 5:25 am

DVCal wrote:
Unseen wrote:
There can be no cure.

You cure something that was once normal, but then got damaged/sick at some point.

We were never normal. We were born this way. Our brains developed differently from the very beginning.


To "cure" us basically means to destroy our entire self, down to the core.


I disagree, people with congenital disorders, which I considered autism or aspergers to be, can be cured. Think about a child born with degenerative disorder, the child was never normal, that doesn't mean we can't search for a cure for this child. FYI if you have autism/aspergers you are damaged, either at birth or shortly after.


you most likely developed your neurology during gestation, that development carries on throughout life.

the real problem here is that treatment surely is possible and there are plenty of people that reeive treatment that are still anti cure.
it is two very different concepts and one has to be carefull to say what one actually means.

the issue that i personally have with a cure is that it quite simply isnt feasible, not in the next long long time at least.
it would require one to rewrite several genes in the very first stages of development and we have barely scratched the surface of genetic involvement today.

furthermore that presupposes that ASD's are in facta stable set of genes, something that it with almost a 100% certainty isnt with todays defintions.
the ammount of different ways an ASD can manifest itself and some of the more marked differences in some of the disorders to me hints that ASD's in effect are a collection of related but distinctly different disorders and i think the genetics will show that as well in the future, at that time defitions will change.

there is also another possiblity in that it could all be the same base cause, but then it would be at such a low level that it can allow the different manifestations based on other factors, internal and external, in that case it might be simpler to cure but again only possible at conception or shortly after, in effect it would only be feasible for very few people since many go for a time before they find out they are pregnant, we can of course not say at what point in the pregnancy such a treatment would be too late.

so while i have nothing against the idea of a cure i cant realistically see it as a possiblity,
treatment on the other hand is a possiblity and it and it's availability is drowned out by an irrelevant debate with no clear goal or focus.

as for circumcision, no i dont think that is okay in any way either, it is a tradition and nothing more, some people are hurt psychologically by it, indlucing a couple of local members, it is unnecesary and opurely cultural.


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Tyazii
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19 Dec 2012, 5:39 am

Why would I consider the abatement of my intelligence to be a desirable prospect? I apologize if that reads as magniloquent, but I'm tired of people saying that I would "improve" (a rather vague assertion) if I could be cured of asperger's.