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Dox47
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22 Dec 2012, 4:41 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
The "slippery slope" fallacy doesnt really convince me though. There is a massive gap between a rock and assault rifles.


Does the fact that there have been proposals to force everyone to grind the tips off of their kitchen knives, and that acrylic bar ware has been mandated in some areas to prevent glassings convince you that the British approach to violence is a one way ratchet of restriction and prohibition? I mean it won't be too much longer at this rate before the entire country is using plastic sporks and drinking their beer from Solo keg cups, like in a prison or mental hospital.


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answeraspergers
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22 Dec 2012, 4:48 pm

No not really.

Knives in argos

I have been in clubs that give you a damn plastic cup yeah but I've also seen people glassed over NOTHING so I dont mind it.

Personally I've always believed if you need a weapon - you are a wimp. I like boxing, mma and martial arts - but any fool can pull a trigger.

That is not to say that anyone that does pull a trigger is a fool. I dont get the right to guns at all.



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22 Dec 2012, 5:38 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
as a Brit - it is absurd that people need assault rifles and equally absurd was "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun". This logic is just bogus and stupid.

I just dont see why anyone needs such a gun and if you really want one - join the forces


Then what stops a bad guy with a gun? Should we ask him if he would like a cup of tea? Or maybe an impromtou rugby game? Possibly play God Save The Queen? (those were sarcastic examples because you said "As a Brit")

Honestly though, in your opinion what else would stop a bad guy with a gun other than a good guy with a gun? Seriously, I'm interested in your answer.

We can also take this to another thread if you would like to discuss it, so as not to hijack this one.


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answeraspergers
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22 Dec 2012, 5:51 pm

I said "as a Brit" because it perhaps helps explain how alien I think the concept is. I do like the British examples though *he says laughing through "British teeth".

My point is to deprive the "bad guy" of the gun in the first place. Surely that is the best answer.



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22 Dec 2012, 6:33 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
I said "as a Brit" because it perhaps helps explain how alien I think the concept is. I do like the British examples though *he says laughing through "British teeth".

My point is to deprive the "bad guy" of the gun in the first place. Surely that is the best answer.


I don't get the whole "Brits have bad teeth" thing. I know it's a stereotype, but most of the ones I've seen on tv don't have them. I'm glad you liked my examples though, and weren't offended.

But how to deprive him of the gun in the first place, since we can't go back in time and uninvent guns? Banning them will not remove them. It will not cut down on the number of guns that a bad guy can get either, it will only cut down on the number of guns that a good guy can get. Theoretically you could ban then and then conduct a huge house to house search, etc for them and an extensive search of incoming planes, ships, etc but that's not really feasable. We can't even get rid of meth labs around here and you can smell those, so finding guns hidden under a floor or something would pretty much be impossible. A gun ban won't make guns go away. It will only make legally owned guns go away. Many people who legally own guns and have never hurt anyone with theirs will hide theirs rather than turn them in, so you will create a whole new class of crminal there too.

BTW, come to my thread in PPR about would a gun ban work please. I'm discussing that whole thing there. I'm also over my crazy spell and back to being my somewhat normal somewhat polite self, so it's ok. :-)


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22 Dec 2012, 6:49 pm

you dont get the teeth thing but you do get drinking tea and rugby.

You cant go back to the time to uninvent guns but the fixed constitutional document referred more to six shooters and shotguns than assault rifles. How were they to legislate then for the modern guns like that? Obviously they could not, so a strict application of that means you can have a gun that existed at the time.

Why do you want "good guy" vigilantes? If someone has a gun to my head please dont let some random around me just decide to "take a shot". If someone is taking a shot I dont want a random!

Drugs are searched for in customs. Of course there already are too many in circulation for legislation now to have the exact impact it wants but it remains the right thing to do imo. However, its none of my business and I know you guys love guns.

I dont know what PPR is but I will have a look.



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22 Dec 2012, 7:13 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
you dont get the teeth thing but you do get drinking tea and rugby.

I mean I don't see how the stereotype came about. From what I know, Brits drink tea like we do coffee over here, and rugby is played over there and talked about and stuff. I don't get where the teeth stereotype came from because I haven't really seen any more bad teeth on Brits than I have Americans or Canadians or French or Italians etc. Where did that stereotype come from anyway?

You cant go back to the time to uninvent guns but the fixed constitutional document referred more to six shooters and shotguns than assault rifles. How were they to legislate then for the modern guns like that? Obviously they could not, so a strict application of that means you can have a gun that existed at the time.

The thing is, plenty of people already have those guns, and criminals aren't going to obey a constitutional document anymore than a state or federal law against murder or armed robbery.

Why do you want "good guy" vigilantes? If someone has a gun to my head please dont let some random around me just decide to "take a shot". If someone is taking a shot I dont want a random!

I'm not talking about a vigilante type thing. I'm talking about keeping the law abiding citizens armed for their own personal protection. I don't know of anybody who would try shooting a guy who had a gun to your head unless they were a trained sharpshooter.

Keeping regular people armed does work. I live way out in the middle of nowhere in a small town in backwoods, redneck Alabama. We moved here a little over ten years ago from Birmingham. The gun laws are the same here as in Bham, but here more people have guns per capita than in Bham. In fact, I don't know anybody down here that doesn't have at least one gun. There is virtually no violent crime in my town. No robbery, rarely a murder (like maybe every ten years), etc. I could walk down the street at midnight and nothing would happen to me. In fact, I have.

The reason for this is because everybody here has a gun and everybody else knows it. Things just aren't worth getting shot over and it's pretty much a given that if you rob somebody, you are either going to have to kill them or they will shoot you. Nobody wants to get shot, so any criminals like that who live here (and yeah, we have some) take their crime to Tuscaloosa or Birmingham where they have less of a chance of getting shot. It's not like my town is filled with particularly moral people either. You see tons of men (and a few women) carrying openly, over half the pickup trucks have gun racks with loaded guns in them, and you pretty much know that most others have a gun somewhere on them that you can't see, or somebody else nearby does, so nobody takes the chance. The only other way to have this low of a crime rate is to have no guns at all in the town. None. Not even cops guns that you could steal. But, because there are a lot of hunters around here, that won't happen. So, everybody is armed.

Peace through mutually assured destruction. It does work.


Drugs are searched for in customs. Of course there already are too many in circulation for legislation now to have the exact impact it wants but it remains the right thing to do imo. However, its none of my business and I know you guys love guns.

I could care less either way about having a gun. In fact, I don't have one because my husband is terrified of them. So, my house is one of the very, very few, if not only, one here that doesn't. But, I wouldn't want the government to tell everybody else they can't have one. It's also not so much the gun itself that Americans love, it's the right to have one.

I dont know what PPR is but I will have a look.


PPR is Politics, Philosophy and Religion subforum.


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22 Dec 2012, 9:27 pm

ruveyn wrote:
CyborgUprising wrote:

You are aware that AK-47s haven't been manufactured in a very long time, right? The guns people colloquially refer to as "AKs" or "AK-47s" are in actuality "Kalashnikov-pattern guns," meaning that although they are patterned from the original Avtomat Kalashnikova, they were never licensed by IzMash, the weapons factory officially licensed to produce the gun. Not to mention the fact that the Kalashnikov-patterned guns currently being manufactured/currently accessible are but a shadow of the ones reserved for military use.


All lineal descendants of the German MG42.

ruveyn


The Kalashikovs (really, all assault rifles) are descended from the German StG-44 and it's predecessors the Mkb-42, MP-43. The MG-42 is actually a belt fed machinegun but it has spawned other designs as well.
The Germans had some good small arms designers during the WW2 era.


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22 Dec 2012, 9:57 pm

Dox47 wrote:
answeraspergers wrote:
The "slippery slope" fallacy doesnt really convince me though. There is a massive gap between a rock and assault rifles.


Does the fact that there have been proposals to force everyone to grind the tips off of their kitchen knives, and that acrylic bar ware has been mandated in some areas to prevent glassings convince you that the British approach to violence is a one way ratchet of restriction and prohibition? I mean it won't be too much longer at this rate before the entire country is using plastic sporks and drinking their beer from Solo keg cups, like in a prison or mental hospital.

Does the fact that there have been proposals to register everyone with a mental illness make anyone feel uncomfortable?

Who defines what a "Mental Illness" is?

Scientists? Then anyone who believes in unprovable things might be considered 'Delusional' and placed on the registry.

Religious Leaders? Then anyone who does not believe in at least one god would be put on the list, OR anyone who does not regularly attend a particular religion's particular services would be put on the list, OR anyone who questions Doctrine...

Political Leaders? Whom did YOU vote for, comrade?


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22 Dec 2012, 10:12 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
You cant go back to the time to uninvent guns but the fixed constitutional document referred more to six shooters and shotguns than assault rifles. How were they to legislate then for the modern guns like that? Obviously they could not, so a strict application of that means you can have a gun that existed at the time.


Six shooters weren't invented yet when the constitution was written. Guns capable of rapid fire didn't exist until the (american) civil war.



raisedbyignorance
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22 Dec 2012, 10:34 pm

They keep saying (according to older brother Ryan) that Adam had Asperger's AND another personality disorder. The unanswered question here is...what is that personality disorder? They speak of it but they never specify what it is. You would think family members would know right?



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23 Dec 2012, 12:42 am

His former school's former security coordinator/director was shown documents by Adam's mother saying that he had Asperger's -- not to show that he was dangerous or anything, it's just that the coordinator needs to know any relevant information regarding different behavior (Adam tended to "shut down", which is an ASD symptom). I'm sure said documents have been supplied to the relevant authorities in light of recent events.

That would be a confirmation of a diagnosis (one needs documents to show).



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23 Dec 2012, 12:43 am

Dillogic wrote:
His former school's former security coordinator/director was shown documents by Adam's mother saying that he had Asperger's -- not to show that he was dangerous or anything, it's just that the coordinator needs to know any relevant information regarding different behavior (Adam tended to "shut down", which is an ASD symptom). That would be a confirmation of a diagnosis (one needs documents to show).

Have you seen these alleged documents?


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23 Dec 2012, 10:37 pm

Bad rhyme I thought of :

All the kids were good actors
except AL
cuz he was related to Tony Danza !

*groans* :roll:



MakaylaTheAspie
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24 Dec 2012, 4:01 am

I read through a copy of People magazine that was covering the shooting. They claim he had Asperger's.

I don't know what to think of this. :shrug:


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