Why do atheists care about the beliefs of others?

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NAKnight
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30 Dec 2012, 6:03 pm

ruveyn wrote:

What does it mean to adhere to a non-belief?

ruveyn


It means exactly that, adhering to non-belief.

Best Regards,

Jake


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30 Dec 2012, 6:24 pm

Most don't force their beliefs on others, those apprehensive out the beliefs of others are terrified over how they may impact social policy. As for your stuck-up talking head scientistic sorts who just want to rip on people who'd think outside of reductive materialism, they're forgetting that science is a very slow, constipated, and bureaucratic process for a reason - its there to try to find the most rock-solid reality within its available means and, to find 99.9999999999999% certainty you pay a heavy price - ie. it needs to by that definition ignore what it hasn't figured out how to test until someone's able to think their way out of that box. Unfortunately that very box can create a strong illusion of infallibility and because of that you get a scientific culture that hamstrings its own progress by ridiculing new hypotheses in places where its met nothing but roadblocks and collapsing theories. Takes a while for people at times like that to realize that the status quo isn't working and I think right now we're starting to slide down one of those sort of complacency peaks; ie a lot of very intelligent and analytical people are reopening themselves to a lot of areas that were in previous decades viewed as pure heresy (which I believe to be very much for the greater good of future hypothesis testing).



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30 Dec 2012, 7:59 pm

Cei wrote:
Why try to convince people to be irreligious? I don't see the point of it. I can at least understand religious people trying to convert others, because then, from that point of view, it's just the ethical thing to do. I mean, what kind of jerk would believe their friend was going to be tortured eternally and not care? But if you think no one's beliefs matter, why try to change anyone's mind? Note that just debating stuff for the fun of it is totally different than actually being bothered by people disagreeing and wanting to convince them of something.

Okay, I can see valid(ish) reasons for it, such as sincerely believing all or most religions are harmful, or not wanting people to "waste" their lives on something you consider a lie or delusion, but I'm still curious about what else people might think.

Figured I'd ask this here, since there seem to be plenty of people who could tell me their own answers. :P


I don't.

But if the religious are going to play the conversion game, so can i. Turn-about is fair play, no?

From the point of view of an irreligious person, the religious are just torturing themselves with a lot of old fables. Wouldn't it be ethical to free them from such pointless flagellation?

By any measure, avowed atheists are a minority vs. christians. Some atheists feel like they are set upon by christian soldiers bent on changing them. I wish people weren't dicks.



ruveyn
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30 Dec 2012, 8:26 pm

NAKnight wrote:
ruveyn wrote:

What does it mean to adhere to a non-belief?

ruveyn


It means exactly that, adhering to non-belief.

Best Regards,

Jake


To adhere is to adhere to something. A non-belief is not something.

ruveyn



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30 Dec 2012, 8:41 pm

ruveyn wrote:
NAKnight wrote:
ruveyn wrote:

What does it mean to adhere to a non-belief?

ruveyn


It means exactly that, adhering to non-belief.

Best Regards,

Jake


To adhere is to adhere to something. A non-belief is not something.

ruveyn


Not knowing how to do math does not mean you are anti-math.



ruveyn
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30 Dec 2012, 9:16 pm

shrox wrote:

Not knowing how to do math does not mean you are anti-math.


Quite so. Not knowing how to do the math might indicate ignorance (not to be confused in any way with stupidity).

ruveyn



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30 Dec 2012, 9:41 pm

I didn't read through all the posts but I think the reason why atheists are so gun ho is that they been there done that.

Religion creates alot of separation. Being human is spiritual any way you experience it. I still think and feel that we are spirits in animal bodies and I can relate to any religion. If you can relate to any person despite differences, there is a spiritual component to it although that word is not so good.

We should create a new word that ties the human experience together. I call that shizz. It's poop which grows anew.



NAKnight
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30 Dec 2012, 9:41 pm

ruveyn wrote:

To adhere is to adhere to something. A non-belief is not something.

ruveyn


A non-belief is a something, it's a non-belief your still choosing to believe something!
Your "non-belief" is your belief, take that statement at face value. At least try to look at it from my perspective.
I understand Atheism is "Not a a belief" Could atheism be a belief in the non-belief? Think About it.
You can choose not to believe, but you are still making a choice.

Best Regards,

Jake


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techstepgenr8tion
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31 Dec 2012, 12:10 am

NAKnight wrote:
ruveyn wrote:

To adhere is to adhere to something. A non-belief is not something.

ruveyn


A non-belief is a something, it's a non-belief your still choosing to believe something!
Your "non-belief" is your belief, take that statement at face value. At least try to look at it from my perspective.
I understand Atheism is "Not a a belief" Could atheism be a belief in the non-belief? Think About it.
You can choose not to believe, but you are still making a choice.

Best Regards,

Jake

I think the terminology you're probably looking for - atheism cannot deny being a metaphysical claim. Anything from a claim to Christ, a claim to Allah and Muhammad, a claim of Buddhism, a claim to spiritualism, theosophy, or Gnosticism, agnosticism, atheism - they're all metaphysical claims. For anyone to say anything about deity or not deity they've made a metaphysical claim, there's no way out of it.



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31 Dec 2012, 12:17 am

who cares? To not change beliefs is like not changing your underwear.



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31 Dec 2012, 1:12 am

Shizz wrote:
I didn't read through all the posts but I think the reason why atheists are so gun ho is that they been there done that.

Religion creates alot of separation. Being human is spiritual any way you experience it. I still think and feel that we are spirits in animal bodies and I can relate to any religion. If you can relate to any person despite differences, there is a spiritual component to it although that word is not so good.


I disagree. I think being human means that we have brains that are prone to magical thinking because we have complex lives and we can't make sense of everything around us.

But I'm a rational human being, and that allows me to accept that some things are unknowable. As a friend of mine once said, the observation of something that does not appear to fit into the rule book on how the universe works only illustrates that i have an incomplete rule book.

I'm pretty sure that we are very complex bioelectric systems.



Shizz
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31 Dec 2012, 1:44 am

I'm pretty sure that our "magical thinking" is our imagination that brought us out of the caves.



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31 Dec 2012, 8:30 am

I will say one other thing as well, for those fond of saying "Bald is not a hair color", bald is not a skin color nor the identity of the scalp's wearer either. Its like standing on the top of a plateau, claiming you've found the entire relevant world, and then erratically gesticulating at trees on that plateau when anyone offers their sense that there's more land at the bottom.



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31 Dec 2012, 9:19 am

Shizz wrote:
I'm pretty sure that our "magical thinking" is our imagination that brought us out of the caves.


Imagination is double edged. Sometimes it gets us to something useful. Sometimes not.

Since humans can only deal with finite bundles of fact, imagination of the inductive sort is the only thing that can get us to general statements about the world. Let it be so. Also let us be cautious about imagination.

ruveyn



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31 Dec 2012, 9:29 am

I tend to think creative fantasy is great for generating hypothesis, the deductive mind asks whether its falsifiable or not, or, proposes a way to create a falsifiable criteria. Testing ensues, prior to that it was an unknown, after enough tests it becomes a known. Essentially something gets tacked down to our collective reality so to speak by such hypothesis testing. It stops being useful if anyone designs legislation for everyone to have eco-friendly hovercrafts that run on countevailing rings of mercury that haven't been prototyped yet or makes us feel guilty for not having extra chairs and plates at the dinner table for guardian angels.



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31 Dec 2012, 9:32 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I tend to think creative fantasy is great for generating hypothesis, the deductive mind asks whether its falsifiable or not, or, proposes a way to create a falsifiable criteria. Testing ensues, prior to that it was an unknown, after enough tests it becomes a known. Essentially something gets tacked down to our collective reality so to speak by such hypothesis testing. It stops being useful if anyone designs legislation for everyone to have eco-friendly hovercrafts that run on countevailing rings of mercury that haven't been prototyped yet or makes us feel guilty for not having extra chairs and plates at the dinner table for guardian angels.


Heh. I like that.

Nothing should be legislated against unless it is a danger to public health and safety.

I agree with the Wiccans. If it be not harmful (to others) then let it be.

ruveyn