Page 1 of 5 [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,573

29 Dec 2012, 6:09 pm

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... n=shorturl

So those 6 guys who signed the pettition (don't do it if you are not a US citizen) are working based on this logic: http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.ph ... ragun_32_4

and this: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... witterfeed

This does not mean "tax religious charities". But to stop assuming that any donation to church is a charity donation. It is not like that. There are Churches out there doing political work even. So, I think it is true. It is unfair that churches get away with not paying taxes.


_________________
.


slave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Age: 107
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,416
Location: Dystopia Planetia

29 Dec 2012, 6:16 pm

There is no way in (imaginary) Hell that churches will EVER pay taxes.


_________________
Since the birth of civilization, small sets of dominant individuals have controlled the numerical majority. Even a cursory reading of world history will substantiate this claim. Kings, Pharaohs, Emperors, Sultans, Czars, and Dictators have imposed their will upon their subjects. This pattern has not changed over the millennia and it remains so, today. Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them. They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. All those who oppose their will, will be destroyed. Given the obvious futility, I will not resist. 2+2=5.


Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,573

29 Dec 2012, 6:22 pm

One time it seemed impossible women would vote. Or that gay people would be able to get legally married.

If activism begins now, then maybe in 2052 we'll have some progress.


_________________
.


AgentPalpatine
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jun 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,925
Location: Near the Delaware River

29 Dec 2012, 7:12 pm

Is that the FSM I see in your avatar?

I can't agree with the numbers used in that calculation, nor do I care for using "drug money laundering" in the analysis.

Also, the analysis seems to treat labor expenses of a church as some sort of "administrative overhead". From my experence, those "employees" are dedicated to helping people, not all of whom are of the same religion.

I really think the petition ignores the secular benefits of religious institutions, even if they don't want to consider the religion element.

I support requiring ALL charities to have 3rd party reporting of charitable contributions (just like mortgage interest and tution payments).


_________________
Our first challenge is to create an entire economic infrastructure, from top to bottom, out of whole cloth.
-CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Centauri Monopoly"
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (Firaxis Games)


PM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,473
Location: Southeastern United States

29 Dec 2012, 7:55 pm

The churches have too much power for anything meaningful to change.

I mean, one of them runs an entire state, a major university, and one of the largest civic organizations in the US.


_________________
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?


Pileo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 523

29 Dec 2012, 8:26 pm

If you're in the for-profit business, you should be taxed. There are churches that sell merchandise, they own businesses, they're actively making money that are not from donations and they make more than most small businesses (over a million dollars a year). Those churches should be taxed. The small ma-and-pop churches should not be taxed. It's only fair.

If I recall correctly, a state has already started to tax those sort of churches. I forgot where though. It was several months ago.



John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

29 Dec 2012, 11:47 pm

Extremely few churches are involved in politics. Even big churches usually don't have enough wiggle room in their budget for politics. Even if they are moving millions, there's more pressing things for the money to go to. Contrary to popular belief, being a pastor (as opposed to a TV con-artist) is not a form of venture capitalism.


_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud


Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,500
Location: Lancashire, UK

29 Dec 2012, 11:51 pm

Religious establishments should get no more special treatment than any other company.



John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

29 Dec 2012, 11:54 pm

Tequila wrote:
Religious establishments should get no more special treatment than any other company.

It's not a company, it's a non-profit.


_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud


raisedbyignorance
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,235
Location: Indiana

29 Dec 2012, 11:55 pm

John_Browning wrote:
Extremely few churches are involved in politics. Even big churches usually don't have enough wiggle room in their budget for politics. Even if they are moving millions, there's more pressing things for the money to go to. Contrary to popular belief, being a pastor (as opposed to a TV con-artist) is not a form of venture capitalism.


I find that really hard to believe. Otherwise we wouldn't have such ridiculous organizations such as NOM, Focus on the Family, or pretty much every so-called Marriage or Family organization that devotes far too much time to fighting political issues such as gay marriage and abortion. Even the Mormon church was known to put in a ton of money to ensure the passing of Prop 8. Rest assured, if a church or religious organization is strongly against something politically, they will put a ton of money into whatever campaign is fighting it.



TheValk
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 714

29 Dec 2012, 11:57 pm

If you are so eager to see a lot of clergy (already struggling for survival) driven to poverty, go ahead and support this 'cause'...



Raymond_Fawkes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,193

30 Dec 2012, 2:10 am

The easiest solution is don't go to church. Over the past century, I believe the numbers of parishioners who actually attend have been rapidly declining, and this trend will probably only continue.



John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

30 Dec 2012, 2:52 am

raisedbyignorance wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
Extremely few churches are involved in politics. Even big churches usually don't have enough wiggle room in their budget for politics. Even if they are moving millions, there's more pressing things for the money to go to. Contrary to popular belief, being a pastor (as opposed to a TV con-artist) is not a form of venture capitalism.


I find that really hard to believe. Otherwise we wouldn't have such ridiculous organizations such as NOM, Focus on the Family, or pretty much every so-called Marriage or Family organization that devotes far too much time to fighting political issues such as gay marriage and abortion. Even the Mormon church was known to put in a ton of money to ensure the passing of Prop 8. Rest assured, if a church or religious organization is strongly against something politically, they will put a ton of money into whatever campaign is fighting it.

Those are non-profits, but they are not churches. The political money tends to come from people who go to church, but without the political funding going through the church. While the mormons are a notable exception, political money tends to make it's way to PACs in a grassroots way. Churches tend to be made up of fairly like minded people who often fund conservative political causes, and they talk amongst themselves and decide to send money to causes apart from their contributions to their church. The only tricky part is that churches frequently support humanitarian causes, and those can't always be cleanly separated from politics, but that's usually not the fault of the humanitarian groups- the government does a stellar job of turning everything it touches into crap!


_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud


grunt200
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Posts: 69

30 Dec 2012, 10:27 am

i think that they should be able to be tax-exempt but they would have to fit normal non-profit exemption requirements.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

30 Dec 2012, 10:32 am

John_Browning wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Religious establishments should get no more special treatment than any other company.

It's not a company, it's a non-profit.


A company (or firm) can be run for profit or run as a non-profit.

ruveyn