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Vexcalibur
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02 Jan 2013, 8:00 pm

You claimed the difference between secular non-profits and churches is that secular ones have a political agenda. Don't churches too?



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Then why did you care enough to respond to me at all?
So that you know that repeating it has no effect.


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NAKnight
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02 Jan 2013, 8:41 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
You claimed the difference between secular non-profits and churches is that secular ones have a political agenda. Don't churches too?


Why are you assuming every church has a political agenda?
Not all/every church that you see is the Westboro Baptist Church which I fear is the ammunition for your disagreement.
The "Reverend Al Sharpton's" of the world are not in any way affiliated with the normal day-to-day churches that I am mentioning.
The normal "Maw and Paw" "white church upon a hill" churches are solely ran upon a volunteer group of people based upon the financial offerings of it's congregation.
There is no need to punish the small churches for the irresponsibility of the few. I see it like that. I respect your view, but I choose to disagree with you.

Would it be fair for me to say that all secular non-profits organizations harbor rapists? Your assumption is not conclusive.

Vexcalibur wrote:
So that you know that repeating it has no effect.


That's a pointless non-sequitor. You haven't added anything to this discussion. Your ranting. Everyone understands your frustration


Best Regards,

Jake


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Vexcalibur
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02 Jan 2013, 8:58 pm

NAKnight wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
You claimed the difference between secular non-profits and churches is that secular ones have a political agenda. Don't churches too?


Why are you assuming every church has a political agenda?
Because they are churches.

I find organized religion and politics indistinguishable.


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Not all/every church that you see is the Westboro Baptist Church which I fear is the ammunition for your disagreement.

WBC *not* mentioned here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/0 ... 69009.html


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There is no need to punish the small churches for the irresponsibility of the few.
If they are legit non-profits then can go through the same standards as other non-profits, then this won't affect them.


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NAKnight
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02 Jan 2013, 9:44 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Because they are churches.


Because they are...XXX is not a valid argument.
I cannot justify the statement "Gods could not exist, because they cannot exist." The logic is circular and no conclusion follows.

Vexcalibur wrote:


Huffington Post is a pre-dominately biased leftist organization, of course they are not going to call out their own kind. Why should they?


Best Regards,

Jake


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TheValk
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02 Jan 2013, 11:26 pm

People of different political views (and lack thereof) could and in reality do fit into the same official church. You could find anybody from monarchists to liberals to democrats to anywhere in-between to some extreme varieties. Some instances of religious figures having huge impact on politics are sufficiently available in modernity, e.g. Pope John Paul II and the downfall of communism in Poland and Eastern Europe. However, being a part of a religious community does not usually force any particular views on its followers.

I'd rather say the correlation here has the opposite cause and effect relationships with politics. Religion may cause political activists (not necessary religious people since ideas go around and affect people for different reasons and it's hard not to find the influence of Christianity on the most militant of atheists) to maintain a certain policy on human rights, economics, etc. The two should definitely be separated but it's impossible to tear them apart.



John_Browning
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03 Jan 2013, 12:19 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
There are various churches out there and some are composed of just the guy and his books.

If that's the case, then that is already taxable. Selling books or collecting royalties for profit is taxable. Charging just enough to cover your costs or giving them away is not a taxable business.


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AgentPalpatine
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03 Jan 2013, 12:30 am

John_Browning wrote:
If that's the case, then that is already taxable. Selling books or collecting royalties for profit is taxable.


Publication 598 indicates otherwise. Royalties are not subject to tax on Unrelated Business Income (UBIT).


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Vexcalibur
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03 Jan 2013, 2:38 pm

NAKnight wrote:
Huffington Post is a pre-dominately biased leftist organization, of course they are not going to call out their own kind.


You know. This discussion is very unfair, because I have such mileage. I was completely sure you would say this. In fact, I chose a Huff link precisely to make you say this, so that when I post the following Fox News link, I look very cool:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/23/pa ... -election/


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NAKnight
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03 Jan 2013, 5:04 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

You know. This discussion is very unfair, because I have such mileage. I was completely sure you would say this. In fact, I chose a Huff link precisely to make you say this, so that when I post the following Fox News link, I look very cool:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/23/pa ... -election/



No. You look like an Ass. Pardon my French. Fox news is just as bad as the rest of them. I don't buy into the Mass Media anymore.
They are all equally sold-out, it just depends on what/who bought them.



Best Regards,

Jake


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TheValk
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03 Jan 2013, 5:31 pm

The Fox News article poses a good enough question. Vexcalibur, according to you, how can a religious figure address the public without being political and thereby violating such a law? Essentially any statement concerning morals could be interpreted as being of political nature nowadays. I figure you might as well ask them to keep their mouths shut, but no serious human will view this request as deserving of being honoured.



0_equals_true
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03 Jan 2013, 5:32 pm

I think there a misunderstanding what charitable status means. In is not the same a not for profit status, not for profits still have to fill in their taxes the conventional way, they don't get the perks of charitable status.

Churches are one culprit, but no the only. There are many exclusive fee paying schools and a whole host of other business that are legally able to get charitable status in the UK. These loopholes should be stopped.



Appleisbetter
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06 Jan 2013, 4:56 am

John_Browning wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Religious establishments should get no more special treatment than any other company.

It's not a company, it's a non-profit.

If they are non profit how are they so wealthy ?



Tequila
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06 Jan 2013, 5:13 am

TheValk wrote:
Religion may cause political activists (not necessary religious people since ideas go around and affect people for different reasons and it's hard not to find the influence of Christianity on the most militant of atheists)


Not all atheists are former Christians. Not by a long chalk. Most atheists may live in Christian countries and be of Christian heritage (because these are the countries that are the most secular) but there are atheists from Muslim (there's one on this site!), Jewish and other backgrounds too.



LKL
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06 Jan 2013, 5:58 am

Why shouldn't a megachurch that operates a coffee shop, a gym, and a daycare - and which discriminates on whom it employs and on who can use its services - be taxed just like any other coffee shop, gym, or daycare?

Why should everyone else pay more taxes so that church pastors can be paid to preach politics tax-free?



iBlockhead
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06 Jan 2013, 1:44 pm

There are Jesuit priests living a more lavish lifestyle than most Americans. I have no problem taxing these people.

Jokes About Jesuits

The teachers and leaders at the Jesuit high school I went to were telling these jokes, this is completely true.