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Grue
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03 Jan 2013, 11:53 am

Studies have shown that atheists are more likely to have higher IQs than theists. Mine is about 110.

Why don't I understand mathematics? Why don't I understand some science concepts? Why can't I figure out or have an aptitude for computers and programming or even something as simple as putting Ubuntu on a USB flash drive? I'm an atheist, you'd think I'd be all about science and nature and physics and computers. I love science. I definitely have a strong interest in it but a lot of concepts escape me. I want to do math beyond fractions and percents and ratios. I have the interest just not the power to say, "okay brain, GO!"

When confronted by a manual or something to read that explains something, my brain just kind of goes into low-power mode and says, "just skim, you'll get the gist, maybe."

It really is astonishing that I'm not still a Catholic with my lack of understanding in a lot of areas. I guess it could simply be enough to *want* to become something more that defines my secularism. Science is what makes the world go 'round, not religion, not "god", not fairies...

I need to get smarter. I need to have confidence in myself and what I'm doing. How do I do it?

I guess this is where ADHD, dyslexia and Asperger's comes in, huh? If they were screened earlier, I might have been able to form connections, been better at grasping concepts. As it happens, I wasn't Dx'ed with ADHD until I was in my early twenties and Asperger's until I was in my mid thirties.

On the topic of Asperger's; aren't people with Asperger's generally very bright and intelligent? I feel like a low-grade moron compare to a lot of folks I've met on-line and in person. Heck, you've got people with eidetic memories, people who have chosen their unique field of expertise. Mine's movies and some TV shows.



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03 Jan 2013, 11:57 am

IQ is a highly abstract, disputed and discredited concept because it fails to take into account socal, emotional and creative intelligence.

I wouldnt take IQ scores seriously at all.


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Grue
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03 Jan 2013, 12:00 pm

Right but the evidence for not being as smarts as I'd like to be is right there (here, wherever). Match, science, computers, I'm lacking in all of them.

Thank you for the encouragement. I don't care about the number, either. I sure am smarter in a lot of ways than some folks in Mensa I've met.



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03 Jan 2013, 12:05 pm

I have NVLD. My verbal IQ is like 130+, but my nonverbal is like 80, so I'm basically half retarded. NVLD's usually caused by right brain hemisphere damage/irregularity in some kind, right brain is what controls visual spatial thinking and emotions. So what happens is my brain to compensate uses the 130 side more often. If I didn't have NVLD, either I'd be an average 110 IQ normal person, or I'd be a cool high IQ person. But I'm neither. However, people think I'm smart because verbally I can talk well and understand verbally explained concepts well, just not things like mathematics and whatnot.

Also, I've always been, even in the most troubling times of my faith, at the very least agnostic. After going through a period of religious apathy, I'm serious about Christianity again. In my case, I'm Orthodox Christian, and most Orthodox converts are pretty much nerds and super smart engineers and stuff. It's odd at church now, as now in any given group there's usually people much smarter than me. My priest, too, one of the smartest people I know, legitimately.



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03 Jan 2013, 1:07 pm

I dont know if this is lame attempt at being serious, or whether its a lame attempt at being funny.

But either way the OP is confusing correlation with causality.

Statistically women are more religous than men.

But if youre a guy who suddenly finds God- youre not going to suddenly morph into a woman.

Likewise Americans, on average, are more religious than western europeans.

But that doesnt mean that if youre an American who suddenly looses his faith-youre not going to be suddenly magically transported to Paris France.

Likewise if what youre saying is true -that studies show that higher IQ folks tend to be atheist - that doesnt mean declaring yourself to be an atheist is going to cause your IQ go up ( if thats what youre saying). Nor does it even mean that you have to have a high IQ to be an atheist( the Pope of Atheism does not make you go through a turnstile to screen folks who try to join)- nor does it even mean that you have to be better at science than at the humanities to be an atheist.

Average folks who are not science geeks are free to be atheist, or not to be.

So I dont get what youre on about.



Grue
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03 Jan 2013, 1:52 pm

lame attempt at being serious and self-loathesome, I guess.



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03 Jan 2013, 3:01 pm

Grue wrote:
Studies have shown that atheists are more likely to have higher IQs than theists. Mine is about 110.
So, you have a higher IQ than average.

But IQ is worthless, really. I say this as a 145 IQ guy.

Quote:
Why don't I understand mathematics?
What part of mathematics?

Actual mathematics is simple problem solving. If you can do the strange IQ conundrums you can do maths. But could it be you have Attention issues? Most of what is called math in school is really a sequence of steps that needs attention.

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Why don't I understand some science concepts?
Which ones? It may as well be that you don't have good sources for explanations of them?

Quote:
Why can't I figure out or have an aptitude for computers and programming or even something as simple as putting Ubuntu on a USB flash drive?
Putting ubuntu on a USB flash drive is , once again, mostly a sequence of steps. So maybe it is the attention thing?

But not everyone is apt for computers. Including very smart people.

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I'm an atheist,
It is not really relevant you know.

Higher IQ than average is correlated with atheism. But atheism is also correlated with higher education levels. And higher education levels are correlated with higher IQ...

So, the correlation between high IQ and atheism is most likely just a coincidence.

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you'd think I'd be all about science and nature and physics and computers.
Why? Just because you are an atheist? The guys that worshipped Stallin were very stupid and they were atheists.


Quote:
I love science. I definitely have a strong interest in it but a lot of concepts escape me. I want to do math beyond fractions and percents and ratios. I have the interest just not the power to say, "okay brain, GO!"

When confronted by a manual or something to read that explains something, my brain just kind of goes into low-power mode and says, "just skim, you'll get the gist, maybe."
Once again seems like an attention issue.

Quote:
It really is astonishing that I'm not still a Catholic with my lack of understanding in a lot of areas. I guess it could simply be enough to *want* to become something more that defines my secularism. Science is what makes the world go 'round, not religion, not "god", not fairies...

I need to get smarter. I need to have confidence in myself and what I'm doing. How do I do it?

I guess this is where ADHD, dyslexia and Asperger's comes in, huh?
So this is where you should have started.

Yes.

The dyslexia makes you get tired of reading science concept. The ADHD makes you less likely to use math's recipes or put Ubuntu in USB's tutorial...

The good thing is that there are ways to overcome those things knowing the enemy is always a good starting point.




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If they were screened earlier, I might have been able to form connections, been better at grasping concepts. As it happens, I wasn't Dx'ed with ADHD until I was in my early twenties and Asperger's until I was in my mid thirties.
The whole "connections" thing is overrated really. You can just start right now to make those connections but this time being more aware of the ADHD and dyslexia.

Einstein had issues learning in school.

Get science books in audio format, then you will be able to learn science without having to read. Find help about how to deal with ADHD and dyslexia when learning new topics.


It does not matter if you are an atheist, or have ADHD or dyslexia, or are Aspergers or are Catholic. Intelligence is a lot more about hard work than about IQ tests. Maybe what you need is not to give up when you are in the process of learning something. Don't listen that much to that voice that gets tired.

Don't feel bad for doing things wrong the first times. Math and programming need practice.


Current belief says that you "only" need to invest 9000 hours into anything to get good at it. But you need the 9000 hours. It does not matter if you are smart or not.

And of course, the ADHD and dyslexia will mean that you'll need more work. But it is possible.


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naturalplastic
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03 Jan 2013, 3:54 pm

Grue wrote:
lame attempt at being serious and self-loathesome, I guess.


Okay.
Religion (or the lack thereof) is a red herring.
Your self loathing is the real issue.


Which ever way you go- religious, or non religous, you need more self esteem, or your religion ( or non religion) is going to be unhealthy. Ive seen both religion and atheism being used in a bigoted and toxic way- because either can be rooted in self hatred.

I think youve gotten a whole bunch of carriages before a whole bunch of horses: seeking self worth through being able to program an old fashioned vcr is already ass backward. And then you have THAT (self worth tied to the patience to read manuals) somehow mixed up with your beliefs in the nonexistence of God. Youre LACK of faith is threatened by your inablity to read science textbooks, and that somehow is tied to your whole self esteem.

There is a standup comic who screams "salt is salty... thats the sum total of what I know about science".

Being cool usually means NOT being a science nerd in most quarters.

But youre so down on yourself that youre beating up yourself for not being ENOUGH of a dork!

Most folks laugh at Sheldon in the big bang theory.
But youre beating up on yourself for not being enough like Sheldon!



You need work on yourself.

Not to be holier than thou mind you.

I used to be down myself because I had a nerdy personality but lacked nerdy aptitudes like being able to pass introductory computer programming courses.

So Im was niether a fish nor a fowl in the job market- suck at being an affable salesman, but also cant program computers.

So I was, and still am struggling with similiar sorts of things. So I can sorta relate to what youre stuggling with.

But for me its a vocational issue.

To me its a bit puzzling that you manage to drag religion/nonreligion into it as well.

But maybe that shouldnt puzzle me.

There is a certain one time WP regular who is both a science geek- AND a fundie and a fervent Young Earth Creationist. Youre kinda of his mirror image. He tries to reconcile his science passion with his brand of anti-evolution religion and used to post all kinds of crazy theories to reconcile the two. You apparently long to have his scientific aptitude so that you can bolster youre fervent LACK of belief. I guess the grass is always greener... LOL!

What can I say?



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04 Jan 2013, 1:41 pm

No one understands intelligence. It's just an agreed upon unit of measurement. It doesn't have any more meaning than it does that this is the year 2013 in the West or that I am 66 inches tall.

Further, all IQ scores exist on all "levels" of the autism spectrum. You can have Asperger's and have a very low IQ score. Most people with Asperger's have a normal to slightly high IQ. It's a misconception that people with Asperger's are all super geniuses. It can seem that way because if you have systematic thinking it helps you to become an expert in whatever you're interested in. So if you're interested in ancient Mayan civilizations, you may appear to be a genius while you're talking about that, even though maybe you know nothing about math, science, or popular music.

In the same way, people classified with low IQs may just happen to not be good at the concepts on the test, but brilliant in areas no one thinks to test for, such as textile perception or color distinction. There's no real difference between these things and word/shape/number distinctions, but we place value on the latter and not the former.



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04 Jan 2013, 1:52 pm

Specialists in interests and knowing things about subjects and wanting to talk about special interests may make apsies seem smart but could be restricted to those areas.



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04 Jan 2013, 11:48 pm

I wouldn't worry about it. Threads like this are always full of people claiming to have IQs in the gifted range, when it's obvious they aren't that bright. IQ tests are not given out anonymously (people often say they "took one back in school," as though it were disguised as a routine paper and pen test) and they are costly and time consuming to administer. If the majority of people in threads like this are telling the truth, then IQ scores have a very limited utility. You can write grammatically and intelligibly. That's a plus. And most jobs, even good paying ones, don't require you to know anything more advanced than basic arithmetic. You can probably get an AA degree in general studies (you need to get a C in high school algebra to pass), a bachelor's degree in the humanities, or learn a trade. 110 is more than functional.



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05 Jan 2013, 1:31 am

Here's the thing about distribution curves: No matter how big that middle part looks, someone falls outside it.

It's easy for people say that IQ tests don't mean anything when they have high scores. Sucks that you got not such a high score.

Different people are good at different things. Figure out what you're good at and do it.

Because, as St. Mothersbaugh said, "And he wore a hat, and he had a job, and he brought home the bacon, so that no one knew he was a mongoloid. His friends were unaware. No one even cared."



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05 Jan 2013, 1:33 am

Telekon wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it. Threads like this are always full of people claiming to have IQs in the gifted range, when it's obvious they aren't that bright. IQ tests are not given out anonymously (people often say they "took one back in school," as though it were disguised as a routine paper and pen test) and they are costly and time consuming to administer. If the majority of people in threads like this are telling the truth, then IQ scores have a very limited utility. You can write grammatically and intelligibly. That's a plus. And most jobs, even good paying ones, don't require you to know anything more advanced than basic arithmetic. You can probably get an AA degree in general studies (you need to get a C in high school algebra to pass), a bachelor's degree in the humanities, or learn a trade. 110 is more than functional.


My 5th grade teacher was under the impression that i was developmentally disabled.



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05 Jan 2013, 8:43 am

Grue wrote:
Studies have shown that atheists are more likely to have higher IQs than theists. Mine is about 110.



Isaac Newton who invented physics as we know it and the calculus had an intelligence that was off the scale (as proven by his works, rather than a phony baloney test). Newton was also a Deist. In fact in the Scholium of Book III of Principia Mathematica he invokes the Deity. He was a God Phreak.

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05 Jan 2013, 12:27 pm

OP your desire to become more intelligent must come from within.

Smart people tend to not specifically work towards the goal of becoming smart.

They have domains of interest where they acquire knowledge and problem solving skills.

Over time they branch out to areas that are sufficiently challenging and at the same time utilize the skills they've developed so far.

The fact that they are seen to have above average intelligence (whatever that means) is incidental to them.

Do not become sucked in to the artificial world of metrics ("how high is your IQ?, how many books have you read?, what is your GPA?").

It is an empty approach and a complete injustice to the majesty of knowledge underlying this world.



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05 Jan 2013, 2:08 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
No one understands intelligence. It's just an agreed upon unit of measurement. It doesn't have any more meaning than it does that this is the year 2013 in the West or that I am 66 inches tall.



We can all understand person A being smarter than person B. What is questionable is whether we can use a uniform numerical measure for what we intuitively regard a cleverness or intelligence.

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