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Dantac
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22 Jan 2013, 1:48 pm

lol poker is starting to make sense to me now 8)

J-Greens wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
yeah... she did fold. she rejected him.


She could of folded at any point in the game. She could of folded before the flop, or at the turn round, but no, she kept on playing until Dantac said 'check' - and dismissed the whole game as non-serious, when it was clearly the opposite...


^ that is what friend zoned is in my book.

I'm not saying im angry she 'gave me the chance' as you put it... but she was very clear when we talked that she knew it was never going to happen. Like I said, I wasn't even 'on the list'.

Thing is, I don't feel used. I did enjoy the time with her and it was never spent with a 'this for that' attitude. Its just the fact that she chose to do this (and for so long) that hurts.



J-Greens
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22 Jan 2013, 2:06 pm

Dantac wrote:
lol poker is starting to make sense to me now 8)

Lol. The difficult part of Poker isn't really about the cards you hold, more how about how you can bluff (fool) and read the other player(s)


Dantac wrote:
Thing is, I don't feel used. I did enjoy the time with her and it was never spent with a 'this for that' attitude. Its just the fact that she chose to do this (and for so long) that hurts.

But you do feel hurt. If she wasn't playing seriously she could of ended the game earlier and reduced the pain you're feeling.

If she never even put you on the list as you call it, then she should of not agreed to even start the game. It just gets worse in my opinion. Downright malicious that is.

I don't want to start a heated argument but if the shoe was on the other foot, there would be hell to pay for that kind of treatment.



hyperlexian
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22 Jan 2013, 2:14 pm

J-Greens wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
yeah... she did fold. she rejected him.


She could of folded at any point in the game. She could of folded before the flop, or at the turn round, but no, she kept on playing until Dantac said 'check' - and dismissed the whole game as non-serious, when it was clearly the opposite...

she folded when he asked if she wanted to be in a relationship - the exact point when it made perfect sense. she did not deceive him, did not pretend to have feelings when she did not. it's not like she promised anything or lied.

his strategy really did not make sense. i would not advise anyone to pursue a relationship with someone who is uncertain like that. i am not sure what he expected - to convince her? that her feelings would evolve?

but nonetheless, she could not win. countless times on countless threads, people on this forum have complained of friends not giving them a chance. well, he got that chance! now the complaints are over the fact he got a chance but she didn't reject him fast enough. seriously, there is no winning.


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J-Greens
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22 Jan 2013, 2:32 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
she folded when he asked if she wanted to be in a relationship - the exact point when it made perfect sense. she did not deceive him, did not pretend to have feelings when she did not. it's not like she promised anything or lied.

I disagree again! He clearly states that afterwards she calmly tells him that he was never on the list.
So if she never had any intention for a relationship with this guy - why did she agree to go on a date?

He explicitly says "Hey I have these feelings for you and would like to on a date" - if he was never on the list, why, why, why say yes?! :wall:

She should of declined to go on a date. But no she doesn't stop this charade at the first date. So they go on a second, third, fourth - I don't know how many dates - before he asks her to seal what he thought was a successful process, after all why would she go on so many dates before saying anything, only to find out that she never took the process seriously.

What part isn't deceiving?
So, so many times she could of ended this charade, but she kept it going. For what?
What is the point of repeatedly going on dates with a person you don't feel attracted to? And then how are they supposed to feel when you say, "Oh, I didn't take it seriously, even though you said you had all those feelings for me, and took me out on dates"


hyperlexian wrote:
his strategy really did not make sense. i would not advise anyone to pursue a relationship with someone who is uncertain like that. i am not sure what he expected - to convince her? that her feelings would evolve?

What other strategy is there? As a guy you approach a girl, that may or may not feel any attraction to you - the only confirmation you get as a guy is if she says yes or no. If she says yes then as a guy, I would assume she is attracted to me and wanted to go on dates to see if a relationship would work. That's dating. We literally walk in blind with our hearts on the guillotine expecting them swiftly cut. That's how brutal dating is for guys.


hyperlexian wrote:
but nonetheless, she could not win. countless times on countless threads, people on this forum have complained of friends not giving them a chance. well, he got that chance! now the complaints are over the fact he got a chance but she didn't reject him fast enough. seriously, there is no winning.

She could not win, because she said "Yes, I will go on a date with you, knowing that you have all these feelings and I do not"
The fact she has a list is bloody disgraceful anyway.



hyperlexian
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22 Jan 2013, 2:41 pm

she agreed to give it a try - whether or not the odds were stacked against that is not relevant. she agreed to attempt it. Dantac interpreted that part about the list, she didn't say it. all she ever told him was that she never had feelings for him - which he already knew! feelings did not develop, and if there are hard feelings over that it is because he was imagining more than there was.

why why why would he ever ask her out if he knew she didn't have feelings for him? he was fully aware of that fact at the outset, but he convinced her to try anyways. it was doomed to fail - anybody could see that.

this makes no sense whatsoever. if he was unhappy dating someone who had no feelings for him... he shouldn't have done that. she never pretended otherwise. all she did was go along with his request, ill-fated as it was.


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hyperlexian
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22 Jan 2013, 2:43 pm

Dantac wrote:
lol poker is starting to make sense to me now 8)

J-Greens wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
yeah... she did fold. she rejected him.


She could of folded at any point in the game. She could of folded before the flop, or at the turn round, but no, she kept on playing until Dantac said 'check' - and dismissed the whole game as non-serious, when it was clearly the opposite...


^ that is what friend zoned is in my book.

I'm not saying im angry she 'gave me the chance' as you put it... but she was very clear when we talked that she knew it was never going to happen. Like I said, I wasn't even 'on the list'.

Thing is, I don't feel used. I did enjoy the time with her and it was never spent with a 'this for that' attitude. Its just the fact that she chose to do this (and for so long) that hurts.

you put her in that position, she didn't do anything to you.


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J-Greens
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22 Jan 2013, 3:05 pm

hyperlexian, you've misread his statement. He clearly states she only told him that her non-interest after she agreed to go on a date:
" After a long while I ask her to officially be my GF and that's when she tells me that from the very start she knew it wouldn't ever happen "

It wasn't a case of Dantac knew beforehand, or else he wouldn't of bothered even asking for a date. She went along, knowing full well that she did not want a relationship. The blame is on her, completely.



hyperlexian
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22 Jan 2013, 3:12 pm

J-Greens wrote:
hyperlexian, you've misread his statement. He clearly states she only told him that her non-interest after she agreed to go on a date:
" After a long while I ask her to officially be my GF and that's when she tells me that from the very start she knew it wouldn't ever happen "

It wasn't a case of Dantac knew beforehand, or else he wouldn't of bothered even asking for a date. She went along, knowing full well that she did not want a relationship. The blame is on her, completely.

no, you misread.

Dantac wrote:
We're close friends for years and we get so close to the point where the normal 'hang out as friends' becomes very constant. I tell her my feelings for her and that I would like to see how things turn out ..literally asking her if she wanted to see if we could be more than friends and she accepts...


she never said she was interested in him, she only agreed to try it out. he wanted to believe something that was clearly not there.


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J-Greens
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22 Jan 2013, 3:17 pm

Dantac wrote:
[After a long while I ask her to officially be my GF and that's when she tells me that from the very start she knew it wouldn't ever happen


Dantac isn't a mind-reader. If she knew from the very start, why did she say yes?
If there was some attraction she would of said something along the lines of...."I learned that there wasn't a connection as I thought there could be".....not "I knew from the start it wasn't going to happen"
The onus was on her to tell him that there was no attraction and she did not say anything.



hyperlexian
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22 Jan 2013, 3:20 pm

J-Greens wrote:
Dantac wrote:
[After a long while I ask her to officially be my GF and that's when she tells me that from the very start she knew it wouldn't ever happen


Dantac isn't a mind-reader. If she knew from the very start, why did she say yes?
If there was some attraction she would of said something along the lines of...."I learned that there wasn't a connection as I thought there could be".....not "I knew from the start it wasn't going to happen"
The onus was on her to tell him that there was no attraction and she did not say anything.

no, it wasn't on her. as soon as he wanted to get serious, she put a stop to it - she fulfilled every responsibility she could have possibly held there. she didn't allow it to get serious as she did not have feelings for him.

although you are determined to find fault with her through whatever mental gymnastics, it just isn't logical. i think we'll have to agree to disagree.


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22 Jan 2013, 3:26 pm

We'll agree to disagree on this one.
Most guys consider going on dates to be serious, since they happen so rarely.



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22 Jan 2013, 10:03 pm

if a girl doesn't like a guy, then why do they act like a ''quasi girlfriend'' and go on all these ''phony dates''
to dantac. so your pseudo girlfriend went on more than one ''date'' with you but then she said ''you were not her boyfriend''
I think, sorry i can't read alot of stuff.



meems
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22 Jan 2013, 11:40 pm

I still sometimes go on dates. My girlfriend still sometimes goes on dates. Admittedly a lot of people are freaked out by the idea but I'm quite upfront about the fact that I am in a relationship.

Sometimes, in the past, whether in or out of a relationship, I've made my intentions clear and yet still the person I've gone on one or two dates with feels hurt when I again reject the possibility of a relationship. I've had men tell me I've put them in the friend zone - here I thought we were doing just that, becoming friends. When I've insisted on paying, sometimes men will say that I did it intentionally so I could later put them in the friend zone - as if I'm a whore who refused to accept payment.

The few times I've gone on dates with guys and let them pay, all but once I was told that I seemed really chummy when they were paying for a date - then I gave them the cold shoulder later. As if I'm a whore who didn't make good on providing the service they were paying for... and in either case I've had guys act like their TIME was payment for something beyond friendship.

This is generally what I think of when I hear a guy talk about the friend zone. Years of having dudes behave as if women owe them something more than friendship for their time and behavior. I've known more guys who weren't like this at all, more than the few who were. But these guys never acted like any woman owed them anything in the dating world.

THESE ARE JUST SOME THOUGHTS I felt like sharing.


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22 Jan 2013, 11:57 pm

My personal definition of the friendzone is limerence with neither reciprocation nor outright rejection from the other party.

This generally is a miserable situation for both parties (one side is frustrated and the other often feels guilty) but at the same time neither is willing to suffer the pain and consequences of breaking it off. The exception is when one of them is a narcissist or a sociopath, but in my opinion this trends more into abuse than a mere friendzone which I don't consider to be malicious.

So, yes, I believe the friendzone is real but it has nothing to really to do with actual friendship in a direct way.



billiscool
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23 Jan 2013, 12:57 am

meems wrote:
I still sometimes go on dates. My girlfriend still sometimes goes on dates. Admittedly a lot of people are freaked out by the idea but I'm quite upfront about the fact that I am in a relationship.

Sometimes, in the past, whether in or out of a relationship, I've made my intentions clear and yet still the person I've gone on one or two dates with feels hurt when I again reject the possibility of a relationship. I've had men tell me I've put them in the friend zone - here I thought we were doing just that, becoming friends. When I've insisted on paying, sometimes men will say that I did it intentionally so I could later put them in the friend zone - as if I'm a whore who refused to accept payment.

The few times I've gone on dates with guys and let them pay, all but once I was told that I seemed really chummy when they were paying for a date - then I gave them the cold shoulder later. As if I'm a whore who didn't make good on providing the service they were paying for... and in either case I've had guys act like their TIME was payment for something beyond friendship.

This is generally what I think of when I hear a guy talk about the friend zone. Years of having dudes behave as if women owe them something more than friendship for their time and behavior. I've known more guys who weren't like this at all, more than the few who were. But these guys never acted like any woman owed them anything in the dating world.

THESE ARE JUST SOME THOUGHTS I felt like sharing.


well, them guys are wrong. you never friendzone them. you told them guys up front you didn't want a relationship.
far as I know you didn't act like an ''quasi girlfriend' toward them guys.