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The_Face_of_Boo
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22 Jan 2013, 7:30 am

hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:


and Boo, out of hundreds of women i've spoken to, not a single one has ever said anything like that. it's a pretty outlandish thing to say, and it sounds indicative of her own personal mindgames, not the antics of entire groups of people. like that actually needs saying - do you really think that little of women?


The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
A female buddy once me confessed me something about her that I'll never ever forget: "we girls like to have a fan around; and yes, it bothers us when we lose him" -- no of course she's stereotyping her gender but my point that girls think like her do really exist.


Why are you assuming something silly like that? I just repeated what one girl said - it has nothing to do with me.

I said girls who think like her do exist = like her = some girls .

And I called her girl instead of woman because she was being so immature.

Stop trying so hard to put me in a sexist light.

some people are narcissistic - this is nothing new. why do you share this example with us, unless you think it is somehow important?



Because it's one scenario of friend-zoning cases, the scenario where the girl is very aware that this guy X fancies her yet she still gives him signs to keep him as an ego pet.

since we agree that it would not be a common case, it's not like it would be filling a category. it doesn't make it a justified label to apply to cases of friendship between men and women, even when one of them is interested in the other. the only way it could be justified is if 99% of women are actually shallow and narcissistic abusers that like to have fanboys, and that isnt the case. so it doesn't explain the pervasiveness of the "friendzone" label.



*nodding head*

Hmm, so you believe that only 1% of women can be shallow and abusers - I see, sounds legit. :lol:



hyperlexian
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22 Jan 2013, 7:37 am

MCalavera wrote:
Hyper, check this link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... riend-zone

I think you'll agree with at least some of what he says, and in fact, this is what I myself am somewhat arguing for.


well yes, i do agree with that article!! ! he says:

Quote:
The great irony is that the friend zone really doesn't exist. The notion that once people make friends, they will never progress to a romantic relationship, is quickly debunked by a glance at the real world, replete with couples who were friends for months or years before their relationship sparked. Like the related myth that nice guys stay on the shelf while girls swoon for bastards, it is a product of confirmation bias. If you believe it is true, you will see evidence everywhere, while ignoring all the examples of genuinely sweet and gentle guys doing just fine or the many slimeballs who are miserably alone.

also, i agree that not everybody who uses the term "friendzone" is a raging misogynist, absolutely. it's possible and even popular to pick up on current buzzwords and use them without thinking about how they portray both men and women. this whole "friendzone" puts the genders into a weird and unflattering space that isn't even accurate for most of us. i think the majority of people don't use each other for their amusement, so the idea of being on guard for that and naming/shaming each other accordingly does a disservice to genuine friendships.


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hyperlexian
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22 Jan 2013, 7:51 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:


and Boo, out of hundreds of women i've spoken to, not a single one has ever said anything like that. it's a pretty outlandish thing to say, and it sounds indicative of her own personal mindgames, not the antics of entire groups of people. like that actually needs saying - do you really think that little of women?


The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
A female buddy once me confessed me something about her that I'll never ever forget: "we girls like to have a fan around; and yes, it bothers us when we lose him" -- no of course she's stereotyping her gender but my point that girls think like her do really exist.


Why are you assuming something silly like that? I just repeated what one girl said - it has nothing to do with me.

I said girls who think like her do exist = like her = some girls .

And I called her girl instead of woman because she was being so immature.

Stop trying so hard to put me in a sexist light.

some people are narcissistic - this is nothing new. why do you share this example with us, unless you think it is somehow important?



Because it's one scenario of friend-zoning cases, the scenario where the girl is very aware that this guy X fancies her yet she still gives him signs to keep him as an ego pet.

since we agree that it would not be a common case, it's not like it would be filling a category. it doesn't make it a justified label to apply to cases of friendship between men and women, even when one of them is interested in the other. the only way it could be justified is if 99% of women are actually shallow and narcissistic abusers that like to have fanboys, and that isnt the case. so it doesn't explain the pervasiveness of the "friendzone" label.



*nodding head*

Hmm, so you believe that only 1% of women can be shallow and abusers - I see, sounds legit. :lol:

i don't know what percent - likely the same percent as men. what percent of men are shallow narcissistic abusers? i would think the number is vanishingly small.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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22 Jan 2013, 7:59 am

hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:


and Boo, out of hundreds of women i've spoken to, not a single one has ever said anything like that. it's a pretty outlandish thing to say, and it sounds indicative of her own personal mindgames, not the antics of entire groups of people. like that actually needs saying - do you really think that little of women?


The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
A female buddy once me confessed me something about her that I'll never ever forget: "we girls like to have a fan around; and yes, it bothers us when we lose him" -- no of course she's stereotyping her gender but my point that girls think like her do really exist.


Why are you assuming something silly like that? I just repeated what one girl said - it has nothing to do with me.

I said girls who think like her do exist = like her = some girls .

And I called her girl instead of woman because she was being so immature.

Stop trying so hard to put me in a sexist light.

some people are narcissistic - this is nothing new. why do you share this example with us, unless you think it is somehow important?



Because it's one scenario of friend-zoning cases, the scenario where the girl is very aware that this guy X fancies her yet she still gives him signs to keep him as an ego pet.

since we agree that it would not be a common case, it's not like it would be filling a category. it doesn't make it a justified label to apply to cases of friendship between men and women, even when one of them is interested in the other. the only way it could be justified is if 99% of women are actually shallow and narcissistic abusers that like to have fanboys, and that isnt the case. so it doesn't explain the pervasiveness of the "friendzone" label.



*nodding head*

Hmm, so you believe that only 1% of women can be shallow and abusers - I see, sounds legit. :lol:

i don't know what percent - likely the same percent as men. what percent of men are shallow narcissistic abusers? i would think the number is vanishingly small.


Hmm, you should get out and see the world more.



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22 Jan 2013, 8:01 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Hmm, you should get out and see the world more.


Yup. There are more than you think.



The_Face_of_Boo
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22 Jan 2013, 8:02 am

Tequila wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Hmm, you should get out and see the world more.


Yup. There are more than you think.


All you have to do is watching the news to realize that!!



hyperlexian
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22 Jan 2013, 8:02 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:


and Boo, out of hundreds of women i've spoken to, not a single one has ever said anything like that. it's a pretty outlandish thing to say, and it sounds indicative of her own personal mindgames, not the antics of entire groups of people. like that actually needs saying - do you really think that little of women?


The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
A female buddy once me confessed me something about her that I'll never ever forget: "we girls like to have a fan around; and yes, it bothers us when we lose him" -- no of course she's stereotyping her gender but my point that girls think like her do really exist.


Why are you assuming something silly like that? I just repeated what one girl said - it has nothing to do with me.

I said girls who think like her do exist = like her = some girls .

And I called her girl instead of woman because she was being so immature.

Stop trying so hard to put me in a sexist light.

some people are narcissistic - this is nothing new. why do you share this example with us, unless you think it is somehow important?



Because it's one scenario of friend-zoning cases, the scenario where the girl is very aware that this guy X fancies her yet she still gives him signs to keep him as an ego pet.

since we agree that it would not be a common case, it's not like it would be filling a category. it doesn't make it a justified label to apply to cases of friendship between men and women, even when one of them is interested in the other. the only way it could be justified is if 99% of women are actually shallow and narcissistic abusers that like to have fanboys, and that isnt the case. so it doesn't explain the pervasiveness of the "friendzone" label.



*nodding head*

Hmm, so you believe that only 1% of women can be shallow and abusers - I see, sounds legit. :lol:

i don't know what percent - likely the same percent as men. what percent of men are shallow narcissistic abusers? i would think the number is vanishingly small.


Hmm, you should get out and see the world more.

hahaha really? maybe i don't see the worst in people. you didn't answer my question.


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22 Jan 2013, 8:13 am

^^ Surely way more than 1%, hyper!!



hyperlexian
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22 Jan 2013, 8:24 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^^ Surely way more than 1%, hyper!!

what would you estimate? like, there are a room full of 100 of your relatives and colleagues and friends and acquaintances and neighbours. what proportion are narcissistic shallow abusers?


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22 Jan 2013, 8:32 am

hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^^ Surely way more than 1%, hyper!!

what would you estimate? like, there are a room full of 100 of your relatives and colleagues and friends and acquaintances and neighbours. what proportion are narcissistic shallow abusers?


For friends it's none because I wouldn't stay friend with someone like that. But through the making-friends/dating process you might encounter a lot.

I am not very close to family members and neighbors, so the hell I know, do you think those who are would put NSA (narcissistic shallow abusers) on their foreheads? lol

But out of all relatives and extended family, I know for sure 5 of them who are/were abusers toward their spouses/family in their life.



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22 Jan 2013, 11:06 am

hyperlexian wrote:
really? interesting you would not bother to quote my exact words where i said otherwise:
hyperlexian wrote:
if you are taking someone on "dates" in the hopes that sex or a relationship will happen,



When you date someone you are seeking a relationship. You date to see if a relationship can come out of it. Its why its called a 'date' not 'hanging out' (or any other such term). In your sentence there you accuse me of being manipulative and messed up... terms that can only be applicable if my 'agenda' was sex.

I really am trying to understand what your definition of a date is. :scratch:

Quote:
so, you were friends and you tried to become something more and she rejected you. nothing wrong with that. the only problem was your manipulation where you were trying to create a relationship without making it official - sort of easing her into it without even asking if she wanted it, then making her look bad afterward for allowing it! this could have been avoided by being upfront in the first place.


I was upfront from the start. She wasn't. How can I put it in simpler terms for you?. This wasn't a case of us 'dating' and she realizing near the end we weren't compatible... she knew this from the very start.

The amazing this is it seems to me that you think a guy must ask every single time 'is this a date or not?' to the girl. Things don't happen that way. FYI she did call them dates during the time this was happening.

Quote:
yeah... some friends do. you chose to get that close to her as a friend - you were not dating her. it's so strange you are turning that around and sort of blaming her for that when you were perfectly happy with the arrangement... as long as you thought your friendship was going to lead to a relationship.


I fully agree with your 2nd half of the statement. Of course I was happy. We were dating and getting closer. I never assumed from the start it would end up in a relationship or 'manipulated' anything. Now, the first part you're incorrect since you assume that at the time we were not dating... in action and word she did go on dates with me.

Quote:
she didn't do anything wrong - you did.


Enlighten me please.

Quote:
it is not an obvious date unless you call it "a date". 2 friends going out together does not equal a date just because you happen to have feelings for her.


It was called 'a date'. It wasnt just '2 friends going out together' either.

Quote:

you are not taking responsibility for your part in this - while blaming her, and you seem quite bothered about it, so... i am a bit skeptical about this. you said she knew the path would hurt you from the outset, yet only you were fully aware of what your plans were going to be. you withdrew your full friendship from her because she allowed you to date her on the sly? that's like being angry that someone allowed you to offer to move their furniture to a new home. if you don't want to do it out of friendship... don't do it. it is unfair to expect other people to second guess your motives.


Quote:
honesty would be a start - maybe ask people directly on dates. i have never had the misfortune of having someone try to sneak me into a relationship by taking me on dates when we are not even dating, thank god. but i hope you don't try it again in future. it didn't work that time and i doubt it would work in future.


let me get this straight.... We're close friends for years and we get so close to the point where the normal 'hang out as friends' becomes very constant. I tell her my feelings for her and that I would like to see how things turn out ..literally asking her if she wanted to see if we could be more than friends and she accepts... we go out on dates (in action and word). After a long while I ask her to officially be my GF and that's when she tells me that from the very start she knew it wouldn't ever happen (ergo, its not that I was on the bottom of her list..I wasn't even on the list to begin with); that she was going out with me because she enjoyed it and she never thought of them as 'real dates'...that she thought of me as someone she could be with but not WITH, a 'safe' guy (all her BF's , past and present are very abusive emotionally and some physically).

I dont see how I was 'sneaking' it in. I went above and beyond to make things very clear. She used me as an emotional crutch and was fully aware of it from the start. I know this girl very well and I know she has relationship issues from the trauma of the guys she has been with before (and now) so I do not hold what she did against her in anger or anything. She knows this and she knows it is very hard for me to hang out with her because of all of this. We talk and I help her as a friend should but there is a burnt bridge between us now.

My situation is eerie similar to rabits in the point where I do care about her very much and she is now involved with a guy that deals and does drugs and is really up to no good but wow, he's poorly educated but is street smart, charming and a sweet talker. Go figure. Heck last week the guy almost got himself killed in an alcohol+drug related accident. What bothers me is that I don't know how to help her or how to be a friend to her after this.

The topic again however, is the friend zone itself. Her actions are a perfect description of friend-zoning a guy. Behaving like there is something going while knowing full well there isn't and not informing the other party of it.



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22 Jan 2013, 11:28 am

Dantac wrote:
When you date someone you are seeking a relationship. You date to see if a relationship can come out of it. Its why its called a 'date' not 'hanging out' (or any other such term). In your sentence there you accuse me of being manipulative and messed up... terms that can only be applicable if my 'agenda' was sex.

I really am trying to understand what your definition of a date is. :scratch:

you said you were not in a relationship with her officially. you said you were friends. you were being very unclear here though i think i have it now - you said you tried to make it official and she said no. it sounds like she gave you a chance in spite of sensing it wasn't going to go anywhere, just in case feelings could develop against all odds.

Quote:
I was upfront from the start. She wasn't. How can I put it in simpler terms for you?. This wasn't a case of us 'dating' and she realizing near the end we weren't compatible... she knew this from the very start.

The amazing this is it seems to me that you think a guy must ask every single time 'is this a date or not?' to the girl. Things don't happen that way. FYI she did call them dates during the time this was happening.

i have never heard someone say that they were just friends with someone, but that they were going on dates with them. that is quite odd because it is undefined. the people i know are either dating someone or they are not. if they are dating that person, they are in a relationship (it can be a casual or open relationship, but it still qualifies). by that definition, you were in a relationship with her and she broke up with you.

Quote:
let me get this straight.... We're close friends for years and we get so close to the point where the normal 'hang out as friends' becomes very constant. I tell her my feelings for her and that I would like to see how things turn out ..literally asking her if she wanted to see if we could be more than friends and she accepts... we go out on dates (in action and word). After a long while I ask her to officially be my GF and that's when she tells me that from the very start she knew it wouldn't ever happen (ergo, its not that I was on the bottom of her list..I wasn't even on the list to begin with); that she was going out with me because she enjoyed it and she never thought of them as 'real dates'...that she thought of me as someone she could be with but not WITH, a 'safe' guy (all her BF's , past and present are very abusive emotionally and some physically).

I dont see how I was 'sneaking' it in. I went above and beyond to make things very clear. She used me as an emotional crutch and was fully aware of it from the start. I know this girl very well and I know she has relationship issues from the trauma of the guys she has been with before (and now) so I do not hold what she did against her in anger or anything. She knows this and she knows it is very hard for me to hang out with her because of all of this. We talk and I help her as a friend should but there is a burnt bridge between us now.

My situation is eerie similar to rabits in the point where I do care about her very much and she is now involved with a guy that deals and does drugs and is really up to no good but wow, he's poorly educated but is street smart, charming and a sweet talker. Go figure. Heck last week the guy almost got himself killed in an alcohol+drug related accident. What bothers me is that I don't know how to help her or how to be a friend to her after this.

The topic again however, is the friend zone itself. Her actions are a perfect description of friend-zoning a guy. Behaving like there is something going while knowing full well there isn't and not informing the other party of it.

i can't see how she used you in this explanation. you told her your feelings, which she didn't ever say she returned. she only said she would try it out with you. she gave you a chance to see if it would go anywhere and her feelings didn't develop. she knew it was unlikely, but she cared enough to try anyways. she probably learnt for next time that a long shot is not worth trying for, but that doesn't mean she did anything wrong in giving you a chance.


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22 Jan 2013, 1:38 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i can't see how she used you in this explanation. you told her your feelings, which she didn't ever say she returned. she only said she would try it out with you.

I disagree. I'm going to use a poker analogy to explain why I agree with Dantac:
Dantac agrees to play his hand face up if she agrees to play. She does.
The girl does not show her hand.
The flop happens and they both agree to keep playing through the turn round and then the river round...where it's decision time.
She folds..saying she never took the game seriously.

How has she not used Dantac? She could of folded at any point during any round and she did not.



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22 Jan 2013, 1:38 pm

J-Greens wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i can't see how she used you in this explanation. you told her your feelings, which she didn't ever say she returned. she only said she would try it out with you.

I disagree. I'm going to use a poker analogy to explain why I agree with Dantac:
Dantac agrees to play his hand face up if she agrees to play. She does.
The girl does not show her hand.
The flop happens and they both agree to keep playing through the turn round and then the river round...where it's decision time.
She folds..saying she never took the game seriously.

How has she not used Dantac? She could of folded at any point during any round and she did not.

yeah... she did fold. she rejected him.


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22 Jan 2013, 1:42 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
yeah... she did fold. she rejected him.


She could of folded at any point in the game. She could of folded before the flop, or at the turn round, but no, she kept on playing until Dantac said 'check' - and dismissed the whole game as non-serious, when it was clearly the opposite...