5 dead in New Mexico shooting, but it is not front page news

Page 4 of 4 [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

27 Jan 2013, 7:44 pm

Quote:
Surprising how many people don't know the English law that prevents any citizen from carrying any weapon.


You mean those laws that didn't prevent Hungerford, Dunblane, and Cumbria?

So what do you do after the next one? And there will be a next one.
Let me guess...... more ineffective gun laws?


_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson


J-Greens
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 669

28 Jan 2013, 4:52 am

Raptor wrote:
You mean those laws that didn't prevent Hungerford, Dunblane, and Cumbria?

Let's see, 1987, 1997, and 2010. Gee, I guess that's one every day isn't it? Just how many Americans have been gunned down into a box since Sandy Hook, which was 1 month, 14 days ago? I believe the ONS showed that UK gun murders last year were 39, which is once again, falling year on year. So our law's aren't working you say?


Raptor wrote:
So what do you do after the next one? And there will be a next one.

Let's have a look at the pattern shall we, ten years, then thirteen years, so there won't be another one till...2026, but since, gun murders are falling year on year, there's a contradiction. So who's right, statistics or your biased opinion?


Raptor wrote:
more ineffective gun laws?

Statistics show our country is safer than yours. So yeah, keep looking in the mirror on that comment

edit:
Urk! I've ended up in 1789 now. Better get back to the 21st Century and step outside...



Cornflake
Administrator
Administrator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 65,727
Location: Over there

31 Jan 2013, 8:37 pm

[Moved from News and Current Events to PPR]


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


Venger
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,519

31 Jan 2013, 9:26 pm

If the killer and/or victims are gang-bangers the media usually doesn't care very much although they often mention it once.



PM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,466
Location: Southeastern United States

31 Jan 2013, 9:30 pm

Venger wrote:
If the killer and/or victims are gang-bangers the media usually doesn't care very much although they often mention it once.


Correction, as stated early in the thread, it is not news unless they are white.


_________________
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?


Venger
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,519

31 Jan 2013, 9:34 pm

PM wrote:
Venger wrote:
If the killer and/or victims are gang-bangers the media usually doesn't care very much although they often mention it once.


Correction, as stated early in the thread, it is not news unless they are white.


There's white gang members. For example, the huge 18th Street Gang is multiracial but mainly hispanic.



PM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,466
Location: Southeastern United States

31 Jan 2013, 9:39 pm

Venger wrote:
PM wrote:
Venger wrote:
If the killer and/or victims are gang-bangers the media usually doesn't care very much although they often mention it once.


Correction, as stated early in the thread, it is not news unless they are white.


There's white gang members. For example, the huge 18th Street Gang is multiracial but mainly hispanic.


Let me rephrase that, white and upper-middle class or upper class.


_________________
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?


Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,339

31 Jan 2013, 9:47 pm

J-Greens wrote:
Why the gun?


Good question.

There's been a lot of melee weapon massacres in Asian countries, where firearms aren't prevalent (they do have high amounts of killed in each massacre to show that they can be very dangerous).

Some of the worst massacres have involved explosives (a dedicated person can make such no matter how illegal), and fire (matches and flammables from the grocery store).

But, many, almost most, really, utilize firearms; not just the modern "assault weapons", but way back with Charles Whitman and his deer bolt gun and the latest in the UK (this shows that blaming certain types of weapons can be a sign of ignorance -- lead is lead, and if you can get out one round a second, the bodies pile up).

Firearms availability leading to an individual using such because it's more likely there for them? Whilst you can obtain a firearm anywhere (as long as the government has them, but legally, firearms aren't banned in almost all countries), but if half of all houses have one, then they're easier to obtain.

Would most of these people then perhaps be of a poorly functioning ability (easiest weapon to obtain is the weapon used), so they can't plan out a larger massacre, such as what we deem as "terrorists"?

Would these people perhaps be influenced by the "gun culture" -- I don't mean shooters (good people) who play on the weekend and talk about it to others interested in the same, but the "gun culture" as seen in movies and other media?

I'm not naive enough to say the firearm is the cause (if the firearm wasn't invented, replace it with another weapon), of course, but it is interesting that they more often than not choose them.

Luckily, it's far too rare to really worry about, other than for those interested in the psychological profiling of criminals.



Venger
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,519

31 Jan 2013, 9:58 pm

PM wrote:
Venger wrote:
PM wrote:
Venger wrote:
If the killer and/or victims are gang-bangers the media usually doesn't care very much although they often mention it once.


Correction, as stated early in the thread, it is not news unless they are white.


There's white gang members. For example, the huge 18th Street Gang is multiracial but mainly hispanic.


Let me rephrase that, white and upper-middle class or upper class.


I could never figure out what the big deal was with that Casey Anthony trial since only one person was murdered. The media acted like it was an already famous person on trial even though she obviously wasn't. :?

I guess it was just something the media randomly picked to make a big deal out of.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,595

01 Feb 2013, 1:35 am

PM wrote:
Venger wrote:
PM wrote:
Venger wrote:
If the killer and/or victims are gang-bangers the media usually doesn't care very much although they often mention it once.


Correction, as stated early in the thread, it is not news unless they are white.


There's white gang members. For example, the huge 18th Street Gang is multiracial but mainly hispanic.


Let me rephrase that, white and upper-middle class or upper class.


Any school or mass shooting is headline news, at this point in time. Ethnicity might have had an impact in the historical past, but it doesn't play a significant role now, as one black child was killed in the middle school shooting linked below and it is headline news shared with the Superbowl, similar to the topic article sharing the headlines with the Presidential inauguration when it occurred.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... g/1881029/

The topic article, moving in on two weeks is still headline news in some news outlets:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/3 ... 80701.html



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,595

01 Feb 2013, 3:17 am

Dillogic wrote:
J-Greens wrote:
Why the gun?


Good question.

There's been a lot of melee weapon massacres in Asian countries, where firearms aren't prevalent (they do have high amounts of killed in each massacre to show that they can be very dangerous).

Some of the worst massacres have involved explosives (a dedicated person can make such no matter how illegal), and fire (matches and flammables from the grocery store).

But, many, almost most, really, utilize firearms; not just the modern "assault weapons", but way back with Charles Whitman and his deer bolt gun and the latest in the UK (this shows that blaming certain types of weapons can be a sign of ignorance -- lead is lead, and if you can get out one round a second, the bodies pile up).

Firearms availability leading to an individual using such because it's more likely there for them? Whilst you can obtain a firearm anywhere (as long as the government has them, but legally, firearms aren't banned in almost all countries), but if half of all houses have one, then they're easier to obtain.

Would most of these people then perhaps be of a poorly functioning ability (easiest weapon to obtain is the weapon used), so they can't plan out a larger massacre, such as what we deem as "terrorists"?

Would these people perhaps be influenced by the "gun culture" -- I don't mean shooters (good people) who play on the weekend and talk about it to others interested in the same, but the "gun culture" as seen in movies and other media?

I'm not naive enough to say the firearm is the cause (if the firearm wasn't invented, replace it with another weapon), of course, but it is interesting that they more often than not choose them.

Luckily, it's far too rare to really worry about, other than for those interested in the psychological profiling of criminals.


I think there are several factors: a culture of violence centered around the gun as the favored weapon of choice from early childhood, a highly efficient portable killing machine, easy access, easy availability, anger and the ability to see others suffer in real time that are the target of that anger and/or revenge, and the control the weapon provides in ending the person's life that is controlling the crime. These factors all fit the profile of the rampage killings that have been studied in the last century beyond those that involve domestic disputes, robbery, and gang related violence.

Although these crimes are indeed relatively rare as violent crimes goes, and one of the last things in life statistically worth worrying about in the real world. The real world now includes TV and the internet, and the brain when exposed to the repeated emotions of these media reported events is impacted similarly as it would be if it occurred in one's own community or school. But, most people can get desensitized to almost anything in life, as habituation to uncomfortable stimuli is something humans are well evolved for. Children murdered for random reasons in large numbers is perhaps one of the hardest things for humans to get desensitized to, because it is an ultimate taboo for survival of the species, on an instinctual level.

As long as I have been living in the US the one factor that I have seen that has "fired up" the US gun culture more than any other factor was the election of Obama. There was a dark storm brewing at the beginning of his election for these type of events to increase as time went on in his first term, and now there is a cumulative effect of that storm as the events have come to pass and the gun culture continues to get more "fired up" now that the fears of gun control are growing stronger everyday in the US. A mass school shooting of elementary school was an ultimate stimulus for this dark storm of factors to grow more intense, as some type of action of gun control is now inevitable. There is a social contagion associated with this type of phenomenon that humans are vulnerable to that cannot be easily dismissed.

I've pondered why these rampage killings and serial killings dropped so suddenly after the year 2000, in the first part of that decade, and I think about the nation's focus on an outside enemy and 9/11 that was pretty strong for several years.

That focus of social contagion on an enemy outside of the borders is effectively gone in the national psyche and an enemy inside the border has become guns, guns, and more guns, and the fear of less guns, guns, and guns.

For some Obama is an ultimate icon of anger and fear, "firing up" the US gun culture, as no other icon could likely do at this point in history, other than a terrifying school shooting of elementary children to "fire up" the protective human instinct for survival of the species. It seems part of a larger ultimate human struggle of the warrior instinct vs. the nurturing instinct of the village for survival, with guns as the perceived icon of protection and prize for some and the perceived icon as villain and harm for others.

It should be no wonder guns continues to be the weapon of choice for rampage killings, and those rampage killings will likely continue to increase still relatively rare per violent crimes but ever present in the national psyche, along with guns and control of both. I'm not sure anything could slow it, substantially, other than a renewed national social contagion for a common enemy outside of the borders that obviously would likely come from an even darker force of storm brewing.