Main Unionist party in NI may support SF's border poll idea

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Tequila
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22 Jan 2013, 6:56 pm

Vigilans wrote:
One politician (cannot recall his name) advocated for a dominion-style relationship akin to Canada or Australia with the UK


You don't mean Professor Kenny Lindsay, who formed the British Ulster Dominion Party in the 1970s? That idea came from the hardline loyalist camp. A number of ideas came from the loyalist camp in the 1970s and 1980s, one of them being Northern Irish independence.

It's not a bad idea, but almost no-one in Northern Ireland either wants it or seriously considers it as an option. The staunchest advocate of it at the moment is David Kerr, a politician in Northern Ireland who is the head of a tiny national liberal and anti-EU party called Third Way. Before that, was involved with the National Front.



thomas81
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22 Jan 2013, 7:18 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Irish republicans will be in a better place to argue for Irish unity after Scotland says 'yes' to independence.


Being a bit overly optimistic in your wishful thinking aren't you?

I think it's far more likely that the majority of Scots will say 'no' to 'independence'. You'll get perhaps a majority of people in some places voting 'yes', but more people in other areas voting 'no'. I'd say probably 30% of Scots maximum will vote for 'independence' (by which they mean greater EU servitude).

by the same token, those voting 'no' are in favour of greater London servitude.


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Tequila
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22 Jan 2013, 7:31 pm

thomas81 wrote:
by the same token, those voting 'no' are in favour of greater London servitude.


No, they're voting for the status quo.

If Scotland left the UK, the UK would probably break up. England would then be a much more conservative country.



0_equals_true
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22 Jan 2013, 8:07 pm

Tequila wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
You are talking about the Commonwealth. Commonwealth members have to opt in, there would most likely have to have similar arrangement with Ireland.


Ireland left the Commonwealth in 1949. Northern Ireland, as part of the UK, remained inside the Commonwealth. Although it's in slightly different circumstances, Hong Kong left the Commonwealth in 1997 when it ceased to be a British dependent territory having been handed over to the Chinese.

There are quite a few republics that are members of the Commonwealth. As long as they have some form of ties with the UK, I can't see it being a problem. (Mozambique, as a former Portuguese colony, was an exception, and I don't think that will be repeated.)

Yes South Africa left the commonwealth and rejoined it.

I know a fair bit about this subject, due to my dad's old job. NI is a part of the UK. Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is not a commonwealth realm yet, but a UK constituent of the Commonwealth of Nations.

I wasn't actually talking about Ireland rejoining the commonwealth. I was talking about Irish relations with an Independent NI.

Ironically relations between the UK an Ireland have never been better in modern history. The period when Ireland was in the Commonwealth it wasn't such a happy time.

We still technically allow Irish citizens to stand as a MPs, if they can get elected an pay the £500 deposit for submitting nominations papers.



Tequila
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22 Jan 2013, 8:15 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
I wasn't actually talking about Ireland rejoining the commonwealth. I was talking about Irish relations with an Independent NI.


I would imagine that in a UI, one of the things on the table - along with making the 12 July a national holiday - will be rejoining the Commonwealth.

0_equals_true wrote:
We still technically allow Irish citizens to stand as a MPs, if they can get elected an pay the £500 deposit for submitting nominations papers.


All Commonwealth citizens can become MPs as well. So that means that if you're a Pakistani, Bangladeshi, South African, Australian, Canadian, New Zealander, Nigerian, Kenyan, Ugandan (etc) without British citizenship you can stand for the UK House of Commons. I think that this is an archaic gesture that needs to be done away with.



thomas81
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23 Jan 2013, 3:34 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
by the same token, those voting 'no' are in favour of greater London servitude.


No, they're voting for the status quo.

With Dave's referendum in 5 years the decision to leave Europe will invariably be made on their half, by in large thanks to the mass weight of euroscepticism and general toffiness in the home counties. Coupled with the decision to claw back workers conditions if this does not constitute servitude, i don't know what does.

Scotland's role in Europe, as with the other constituent nations should be decided by those resident in the constituent nations. Not by Lord Cecil Poncleby in Berkshire or Oxfordshire.
Tequila wrote:
If Scotland left the UK, the UK would probably break up. England would then be a much more conservative country.

Aw diddums. If England becomes more conservative, perhaps dialectics would dictate a Greek style lunge to the left anyway.


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