I had an everlasting conversation with an NT....

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....about the importance of impressing people and how important it is to them. It seemed I chose an NT that couldn’t admit that she does spend half her life trying to impress people by looking immaculate at all times when she’s anywhere beyond her garden gate.


(On a dark evening, an NT is about to nip to the supermarket just to get a little bit of shopping, and she spends over 15 minutes sitting in front of the mirror gussying herself up. I decide to delve into a neurotypical brain to see why all this is really necessary and to see what she will say).

Me: Why are you putting your make-up on again?
NT: Because it doesn’t stay on all day.
Me: Why not just leave it?
NT: Because I’ve got to go shopping.
Me: So? Who are you going to see in the supermarket this time of the night? There are different people there at night to what there is in the day, and you don’t go shopping to attract people.
NT: I don’t do it for other people, I do it for myself, because I feel dishevelled.
Me: You don’t have make-up on and feel dishevelled when you’re not going anywhere in evenings, but you don’t care for make-up then. So you must be doing it for other people.
NT: I don’t do it for other people, I do it for myself.
Me: If you only do it for yourself, then how come you don’t gussy up when you’re not going out anywhere?

(NT starts getting distressed and accuses me of having this conversation with her every day, even though this was the first time I have ever asked these questions. It is obvious that the NT can’t admit the ‘’NT code’’, which is ‘’to look good when being in any type of environment where you’re likely to see other people, whoever they may be and whichever the environment entails).

Fact what this NT can’t understand: Going to a supermarket in an evening without having make-up on does not define one as ‘’unusual’’ or enough to stand outside the crowd. I know some NTs that never wear make-up at all (except on special occasions) and they still get socially accepted and never judged.

I do find the NT mind interesting, which is why I decided to survey this particular NT. Just thought I’d share it and see what other Aspies/Autistics think.

It's about feeling comfortable with herself in public. There was no need to annoy her like that.

I'm sometimes like that with my brothers, and it annoys the hell out of them big time every time I force a debate about something they do that I can't fathom. NTs usually aren't fond of such debates as much as we would imagine.

Was that really necessary?

We all do things that make up more comfortable going out in public.

Hmmm, that’s interesting but there are several reasons one may go out looking their best without the desire to control the way other people think about them. I think a lot of people on the spectrum think that Nts all have this social confidence in them that makes them confident in everything they do and say and never get afraid of people or interaction. This is not true, and I say that as an Nt myself. Yes some Nt people do feel the need to attract people when they go out, but theres a lot that dont. There are Nts out there that sometimes feel they just need to give themselves a little boost in order to function well outside their home where there are other people around, to make themselves feel a little more confident in performing tasks as simple as going to a supermarket to get a few groceries. When people are at home, they know that is their ‘safety zone’. The word ‘home’ has got a meaning to it. If an autistic person doesnt care to impress anyone, their home is still the place where they can feel safe, and the same goes for anyone, whether they want to impress other people or not. Maybe gussying up is an Nts way of making themselves feel more confident in having to do chores in public places, and may have nothing to do with what other people think of them. Also its sometimes just a habit of putting on make-up that they get themselves into. I know some women that like to doll themselves up even when they arent going out anywhere, like keeping their make-up immaculate all day even when they are not going out.

I hope this theory has explained your curiosity.

Well whatever I may do with an NT is wrong because I’m Aspie and so will never have the upper hand. Even if I got stabbed by an NT it will still somehow be my fault. Last week my uncle (NT) was asking me a string of questions why I like bus-drivers so much. He kept saying ’’what’s the difference between a man who drives buses and a man who digs graves?’’ I didn’t know what to say really. But if the answer to him asking me questions about my obsession is ’’because an obsession with bus-drivers is considered strange to an NT’’, then same goes for me with this scenario. It is very unusual for me to ask questions to people over something like that, so it’s not like I do this ‘’faux pas’’ all the time like people do at me.

I do like monstermunch’s point though.

I am autistic. I don't wear makeup, but I do not like to go out in public looking disheveled. Why would I want to give people another reason to pick on me. I have pride in who I am and the way I present myself is part of it. I am sure NT's feel similar. I see no reason to pick on someone for wanting to look nice when they go to the grocery store. Actually, sometimes I appear disheveled even when I try not to.

Maybe she really does do it for herself. I like to be clean and wear clean clothes. That is just how I feel. Not because of what others would think. Also I don't like to smell for the sake of being courteous for other people but even at home I don't want to be dirty so I shower every day or every other day.

Also what about things autistic people must bring out in public with them or what they must wear? Is it also about other people? Even NTs have their own rituals about how they look just like some of us have a ritual for what we must bring in public. That is how I see it as to understand their view.

Like others have said, she probably does it to make her feel more comfortable with herself in public.
Maybe if she feels more comfortable walking down the street, she won't be targeted by teenagers.

Firstly, I think this NT was bothered by your persistent questioning about her make up application, so most importantly what you learn in this survey is: don't go there again discussing this topic with her. Eventually, she would go probably go beyond "distressed"?? and get angry in self-defence, as she possibly feels like you are hounding her.

Try taking at "face value" (pardon the pun) what she says and that she is doing it for herself so she does not feel dishevelled.

I think there can be element of truth in this for both NT's and Aspies. I'm an Aspie, and I'll do things to improve my visual appearance to help make me feel better (not the same as dishevelled I know). So I'll shower put on new fresh clothes, brush my hair, apply perfume etc., especially when I'm feeling low.

For some obscure reason, is the norm, social NT convention (in some Cultures) for women to slap on make-up, in the belief it improves there looks?? I use to plaster make-up over my face in my early 20's when at work - all the women did. Naturally, to fit in, I did the same. But I came to the realisation I hated it, and I think I looked worst. So then I wore the barest minimum, that I thought looked good and other people probably thought looked ridiculous (as I had no idea how to eye make-up!!).

Now I no longer work, so it is only going out for the infrequent special celebratory occasions, that I make an effort to apply minimal make-up, which seems to be part of the social dress-code to dress up when going out.

Some of it comes down to self-acceptance, self-security and liking how your face looks naturally, and then being comfortable to just go out in public in your natural "unpainted" face!!

Most bizarre observation I've made, was whilst on Safari in Africa, where you only had a bowl of water to wash, and yet every day, for a month this women would emerge with her full face-paint make-up on. So there are all sorts.

And finally, you may note make-up does wear off, it doesn't last all day - your skin just seems to absorb it, (yuck!!) and I think it is common for women to reapply their make-up again later in the day, especially when going out in the evening.

It's basically goes down to self pride. People feel good when they know they look good and look clean. Often people will feel there best when they do things that society as a whole will think looks good. I think some of it has to do with not feeling embarrassed too.

This is really interesting. Erving Goffman wrote a book called "The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life" which I think all aspies should read. It explains NT behavior at a micro level. Most people don't know why they do simple things like put on makeup before they go out, drive someplace using a particular route, or eat dinner in a specific way.

I like to know the "why" of everything. Your conversation sounds rather like many I've had! I annoy people a lot...
I don't wear makeup (hate it) and I don't shave. I'm not particularly worried about my appearance, though I'll brush my hair and put clothing on (rather than pajamas). I have gotten a lot of comments on my appearance, which does bother me (what business is it of theirs?). They think it's gross to not shave, even though I shower regularly and wear deodorant.
I tend to equate makeup wearing to low self esteem, if it's not just brainwashing to have everyone conform. Many women wear makeup and nice clothing to make themselves look more appealing to other people, which in turn makes them feel better about themselves. They get so used to wearing makeup that they feel "naked" without it. Inside their own home, that is their sanctuary where they can do anything. I think of it as walking around nude. You probably only do that in your own home where you're most comfortable.

Déjà vu

Old thread, I know but I just had to add this as it was such a huge coincidence to stumble upon this topic after what I saw this morning.
When I got on the train this morning, there was a woman sitting there applying her make-up. The train journey from my suburb to the city is about an hour’s trip. When I got off the train, she was still sitting there, still applying her make-up. She didn’t look any different when I got off from how she looked when I got on.

Here’s the thing I don’t understand. They spend all that time trying to look nice but if you tell them, they look pretty, they get offender and say something like “Bugger off jerk!” or “Get lost you creep!” or call you a pervert. I don’t get it.

It's a bit like sticking a "Kick Me" sign on your bum and getting upset when someone kicks you!

It's because women don't wear make up to impress guys, but to look prettier than other women.

/thread