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Grand_pilot
Snowy Owl
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18 Feb 2013, 12:39 pm

People are quick to point the finger at Disney, yet they forget the same company produced the Avengers.

Remember when Disney bought Marvel? The people that thought this was the apocalypse of superheroes sound pretty silly today don't they?



eelektrik
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18 Feb 2013, 12:57 pm

Declension wrote:
I am very optimistic about the future of Star Wars movies. The writers pretty much have a blank slate, and they are professionals at coming up with simple, compelling stories. No more trade blockades and political conspiracies!


You mean things that were integral to the entire plot of the prequel trilogy? I really do not understand why people complain about the political scenes and story, not everything has to be all action all the time, and those scenes were necessary for the story to set up the action. They also further flesh out Palpatine as the cunning villain that he is.



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18 Feb 2013, 1:19 pm

Ellektrik: I agree with you, conspiracies and political satires are essential to the Star Wars universe. (ex. The separatists\Confederacy of independent systems, are a Sci-fi satire of the Confederates of the American Civil War, the galactic empire is a satire of Fascism). Although with Palpatine dead, they might have to find a new "chess master" type character to replace Palpatine (Emp. Roan Fel? Darth Krayt?)

Even in the days of the old republic, the Jedi order itself was involved in a conspiracy.



mango_prom
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18 Feb 2013, 5:45 pm

eelektrik wrote:
Declension wrote:
I am very optimistic about the future of Star Wars movies. The writers pretty much have a blank slate, and they are professionals at coming up with simple, compelling stories. No more trade blockades and political conspiracies!


You mean things that were integral to the entire plot of the prequel trilogy? I really do not understand why people complain about the political scenes and story, not everything has to be all action all the time, and those scenes were necessary for the story to set up the action. They also further flesh out Palpatine as the cunning villain that he is.


I would have no problem with politics or more dialogue or whatever, as long as it's not executed like the prequel trilogy. It can't get any worse, and as long as George Lucas is not involved in writing the script, the new movies should be solid at least with some serious potential of becoming great.



eelektrik
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18 Feb 2013, 8:31 pm

mango_prom wrote:
eelektrik wrote:
Declension wrote:
I am very optimistic about the future of Star Wars movies. The writers pretty much have a blank slate, and they are professionals at coming up with simple, compelling stories. No more trade blockades and political conspiracies!


You mean things that were integral to the entire plot of the prequel trilogy? I really do not understand why people complain about the political scenes and story, not everything has to be all action all the time, and those scenes were necessary for the story to set up the action. They also further flesh out Palpatine as the cunning villain that he is.


I would have no problem with politics or more dialogue or whatever, as long as it's not executed like the prequel trilogy. It can't get any worse, and as long as George Lucas is not involved in writing the script, the new movies should be solid at least with some serious potential of becoming great.


The thing is, those scenes were essential plot-wise. They may not have had the best writing but they got their point across and contributed to the overall story. Especially in Episode 1 where Palpatine organized a trade blockade of his own planet in order to put himself in the political spotlight so he could gain power in the long run from it. He is a patient villain, running the long con on the entire galaxy, and people complain about scenes that are essential to that plot.

My biggest issue with the prequels, as far as writing goes, is that Lucas couldn't write a love story if his life depended on it. The scenes between Padme and Anakin in Episode 2 rank up there among the worst dialogue I have ever seen in a movie, but despite that I still found the overall plot to be good and the movies entertaining.



Declension
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19 Feb 2013, 3:59 am

eelektrik wrote:
The thing is, those scenes were essential plot-wise.


Not true. There was only a handful of requirements for the prequel trilogy, and one of them was to show how a Republic became an Empire. There are definitely ways of showing this which are more compelling than a whole lot of monotone speeches.

The prequels chose to focus intensely on the boring details of the coup, and in the end they couldn't even make that plotline believable. You remember when Palpatine gives that final "I am evil" speech to the Senate and everyone cheers for him like he's Hitler? Not buying it. In fact, I don't know why Lucas didn't do the obvious thing and just have Palpatine seize power in exactly the same way that Hitler did. It's a better story, and it doesn't take up so much time.



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19 Feb 2013, 11:06 am

Palpatine's plot was to:
A) get rid of as many Jedi as possible, leaving no obstacles for his reign.
B)Seize power and revive the Sith Empire

Achievement unlocked on both!

Palpatine's speech at the senate wasn't quite "i'm evil!" it can be summed-up as something like this:

-The Jedi's true colours have been revealed/they tried to assassinate me!
-The war over its now an unstable time, therefore Civil liberties will be suspended in exchange for a more secure society.

When Hitler became Chancellor 1933. In October of that same year the Reichstag (the German parliament) was set on fire. Hitler then convinces Hindenburg to suspend civic liberties and ban political opposition under the guise of quelling terrorism, and protecting the German people.

August 1st 1934: Hindenburg passes away, Hitler is now in full power, and there is no one to stop him. He is now officially a dictator and the persecutions have already begun.

I could go on, but i think that sums-up the Palpatine/Hitler comparison in a nutshell



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19 Feb 2013, 1:25 pm

I'm interested myself. I'd like to see the last three books too. I remember back in 1977, my school bus driver (I turned 11 that year) said that Lucas was making the middle three books first, then the first three and then the last three. I'm glad he, or the franchise, is sticking to the program although a bit off the original idea. The then current thinking was Episodes I would come out in 1986, II in 1989 and III in 1992 with VII in 1995 VIII in 1998 and IX in 2001. What is really weird is that in "Back to the Future II," Marty McFly travels to 2015 and sees a movie theater showing "Star Wars Episode VII" by Disney. It's amazing how they called it far back in 1989 since Disney is making it and will release it in 2015 although they were way off on floating scooters/skateboard, flying able cars and "Mr. Fusion." ;)



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19 Feb 2013, 11:18 pm

Palpatine never really said or did anything in the movies that convinced me he was capable of all the manipulating that the plot fairy says he pulled off.

For example, why do the seperatist leaders trust him?



eelektrik
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19 Feb 2013, 11:34 pm

Tensu wrote:
Palpatine never really said or did anything in the movies that convinced me he was capable of all the manipulating that the plot fairy says he pulled off.

For example, why do the seperatist leaders trust him?


All of his dealings with the Trade Federation and later the Separatists, is under the guise of Darth Sidious, and even then not directly, usually through hologram or through his apprentice. I imagine very few of them actually know he is Palpatine.

Unlike the viewer, they haven't watched Return of the Jedi.

NowhereMan1966 wrote:
What is really weird is that in "Back to the Future II," Marty McFly travels to 2015 and sees a movie theater showing "Star Wars Episode VII" by Disney. It's amazing how they called it far back in 1989 since Disney is making it and will release it in 2015 although they were way off on floating scooters/skateboard, flying able cars and "Mr. Fusion." ;)


That was something someone photoshopped simply because the movie took place in 2015. Originally in the film the theater Marty was looking at was showing Jaws 19.



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20 Feb 2013, 12:10 am

Tensu wrote:
Palpatine never really said or did anything in the movies that convinced me he was capable of all the manipulating that the plot fairy says he pulled off.

For example, why do the seperatist leaders trust him?


The Neimoidians (the trade federation) are greedy and in the conflict for profit. They would do anything and side with anybody that could offer them such profit. However they're also notorious for being cowardly, and would not pass the over of having others do the dirty work for them (Hence an army of droids).

The seperatist leaders: trade federation, Banking Clan, Techno union and the rest of the Confederacy of independant systems elected Count Dooku as their leader (in the Clone wars, it is revealed that he is the speaker of the house in the Confederacy's parliament). The separatists don't trust Palpatine so much as they trust him through Dooku.

It's revealed in the novels that much of the preliminary work was achieved with the help of his master Darth Plagueis "the wise", think of the scene with Palpatine and Anakin at the theatre in episode 3.. Palpatine has the gift of foresight, he knows things will happen, as a chessmaster type villain, he made use of many puppets do achieve his overall grand design (Darth mail, Dooku, Jango Fett the list goes on...)



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20 Feb 2013, 8:53 am

Grand_pilot wrote:
When Hitler became Chancellor 1933. In October of that same year the Reichstag (the German parliament) was set on fire. Hitler then convinces Hindenburg to suspend civic liberties and ban political opposition under the guise of quelling terrorism, and protecting the German people.


Yeah, but you missed the most important part: Hitler appealed to pre-existing prejudices. If Palpatine is going to use the Jedi as his Jews/communists, then where is the pre-existing prejudice against the Jedi?

In the prequels, it seems like most people's opinion of the Jedi is "they are the police force of the Republic". It would have been a much better idea to show that common people all over the Republic had heads full of anti-Jedi conspiracy theories. Then when Palpatine blames the Jedi for everything, it would make more sense that everyone believes him.



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20 Feb 2013, 10:38 am

Declension wrote:
Grand_pilot wrote:
When Hitler became Chancellor 1933. In October of that same year the Reichstag (the German parliament) was set on fire. Hitler then convinces Hindenburg to suspend civic liberties and ban political opposition under the guise of quelling terrorism, and protecting the German people.


Yeah, but you missed the most important part: Hitler appealed to pre-existing prejudices. If Palpatine is going to use the Jedi as his Jews/communists, then where is the pre-existing prejudice against the Jedi?

In the prequels, it seems like most people's opinion of the Jedi is "they are the police force of the Republic". It would have been a much better idea to show that common people all over the Republic had heads full of anti-Jedi conspiracy theories. Then when Palpatine blames the Jedi for everything, it would make more sense that everyone believes him.


There are actualy plenty of pre-existing Anti-Jedi sentiments across the galaxy that dates back from the days of the old republic. Although its explored more in The clone wars (as of the latest episode its revealled that there are more and more people protesting in front of the Jedi temple, in previous episodes its also explored the in Confederate systems the Jedi are seen as evil warriors.)

Also Palpatine din't necessarely need to use the pre existing anti-jedi sentiment during his speech, he just had to make it look as though Mace Windu and company were trying to assasinate him, and since he survived he gets to tell all about it. That's enough to make the Jedi look like terrorists.



NowhereMan1966
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21 Feb 2013, 9:29 pm

Oops, guess I was punk'd, it would not be the first time. :)



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22 Feb 2013, 1:38 pm

I am somewhat concerned that Disney will inject more "kid friendly" characters into the series.

The Ewoks and Jar-Jar weren't exactly the most impressive parts of the series, so far.

More Darth Maul/Boba Fett... Less puppies and kittens...

And I wish they would present the Sith from a more philosophical perspective (as in KOTOR)...



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22 Feb 2013, 11:35 pm

GGPViper wrote:
I am somewhat concerned that Disney will inject more "kid friendly" characters into the series.

The Ewoks and Jar-Jar weren't exactly the most impressive parts of the series, so far.

More Darth Maul/Boba Fett... Less puppies and kittens...

And I wish they would present the Sith from a more philosophical perspective (as in KOTOR)...


Maul was brought back in The Clone Wars, which greatly improved the story, with darker story lines,more action as well as what fans wanted. Young Boba Fett was also brought back (he's about 13 as of season 4), and he's voiced by Daniel Logan his original actor. There's also fan speculation that Daniel Logan will reprise his role as live-action Bobba Fett in the up-comming tv-series Star Wars: underworld.

I do agree with you on exploring the Sith more in terms of philosophy.

Some would argue that count Dooku was a true sith in the sense that he realized the corruption of the republic and joined the sith with the goal of forming a new order. By joining the sith he was unlearning what he has learned with perspective to the dark side.What makes this all the more powerful was the fact that Dooku was a jedi master and gave it all up for more knowledge and power.