Can Aspergers & Avoidant Personality Disorder be comorbi

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ker08
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30 Jan 2013, 11:36 pm

I'm just curious if they can occur at the same time. I have not been officially diagnosed, however I think I have both, if it's possible. If it is possible, I believe my avoidance stems from not being able to tell what people are thinking. If it's not, well, I have no idea then. I believe most/all of these apply, except depression and suicidal thoughts.


1. Hypersensitivity to rejection/criticism
2. Self-imposed social isolation
3. Extreme shyness or anxiety in social situations, though the person feels a strong desire for close relationships
4. Avoids physical contact because it has been associated with an unpleasant or painful stimulus
5. Feelings of inadequacy
6. Severe low self-esteem
7. Self-loathing
8. Mistrust of others
9. Emotional distancing related to intimacy
10. Highly self-conscious
11. Self-critical about their problems relating to others
12. Problems in occupational functioning
13. Lonely self-perception, although others may find the relationship with them meaningful
14. Feeling inferior to others
15. In some more extreme cases — agoraphobia
16. Utilizes fantasy as a form of escapism and to interrupt painful thoughts
17. Depression
18. Suicidal tendencies



FishStickNick
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30 Jan 2013, 11:40 pm

I don't know. The diagnostic criteria for ASDs doesn't explicitly exclude the possibility, though:

http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_b79 ... de52e.html



redrobin62
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30 Jan 2013, 11:57 pm

Sad. I have 17 out of 18 of those symptoms. Regarding extreme anxiety (agoraphobia) - I do take Rispedal because it's hard for me to sleep at night sometimes. Sometimes I think somebody's trying to break into my house so I end up sleeping on the couch in the living room just in case. That would make me Avoidant with Asperger's.



Tyri0n
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31 Jan 2013, 12:02 am

ker08 wrote:
I'm just curious if they can occur at the same time. I have not been officially diagnosed, however I think I have both, if it's possible. If it is possible, I believe my avoidance stems from not being able to tell what people are thinking. If it's not, well, I have no idea then. I believe most/all of these apply, except depression and suicidal thoughts.


1. Hypersensitivity to rejection/criticism
2. Self-imposed social isolation
3. Extreme shyness or anxiety in social situations, though the person feels a strong desire for close relationships
4. Avoids physical contact because it has been associated with an unpleasant or painful stimulus
5. Feelings of inadequacy
6. Severe low self-esteem
7. Self-loathing
8. Mistrust of others
9. Emotional distancing related to intimacy
10. Highly self-conscious
11. Self-critical about their problems relating to others
12. Problems in occupational functioning
13. Lonely self-perception, although others may find the relationship with them meaningful
14. Feeling inferior to others
15. In some more extreme cases — agoraphobia
16. Utilizes fantasy as a form of escapism and to interrupt painful thoughts
17. Depression
18. Suicidal tendencies


Yes, I am diagnosed with both. I'd say the symptoms of HFA often overlap though, so it's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins.

Redrobin, I also have agorophobia. I didn't even know what that was before a psychiatrist explained it when I described how I panic in suburban areas and on freeways and anything with a large space, especially if it has people. Do you think it's related to NVLD?



ker08
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31 Jan 2013, 12:11 am

redrobin62 wrote:
Sad. I have 17 out of 18 of those symptoms. Regarding extreme anxiety (agoraphobia) - I do take Rispedal because it's hard for me to sleep at night sometimes. Sometimes I think somebody's trying to break into my house so I end up sleeping on the couch in the living room just in case. That would make me Avoidant with Asperger's.


OMG, I do the EXACT same thing!! Although I admit, I moved to the living room floor because I found it to be more comfortable than the couch after a while. I'll go for a few months sleeping in the living room, and then once in while, and I don't know what sets me off, but I'll suddenly feel comfortable again to sleep in my bedroom (door locked of course). Then the cycle repeats usually a few months later.



redrobin62
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31 Jan 2013, 12:27 am

I had to look up NVLD because, although I'd heard the term before, I wasn't sure what it meant. From reading about it just now it sure seems to be related to Asperger's. I'd like to take an online test to see if I might have it.



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31 Jan 2013, 12:34 am

Seems like AS would confer a vulnerability to Avoidant PD... Or more precisely, the cultural bias against those with AS would make you vulnerable. In the Western world, many countries assume that the ideal is a socially adept, energetic extrovert. (Not so in many other cultures, by the way. Introversion is preferred in some places.) So if you have the sort of personality that will respond to this cultural bias by internalizing the rejection you are exposed to, then you could very well develop avoidant personality disorder.


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redrobin62
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31 Jan 2013, 12:41 am

Update: I looked hither and yon but couldn't find a quiz or test online for NVLD. In any case, it seems like it's something diagnosticians see in children not adults. Quite a few clinicians believe NVLD should be on the Autism spectrum, so in that case, I'd take a test for Autism but I already know I have it.

In related news, DSM-V will regard Asperger's, PDD-NOS and NVLD as historical footnotes - they use to exist but have now been subsumed into the general Autistic heading. It'll be interesting for me to stop referring to myself as having Asperger's and go ahead and say I'm autistic.



Last edited by redrobin62 on 31 Jan 2013, 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tyri0n
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31 Jan 2013, 12:46 am

redrobin62 wrote:
Update: I looked hither and yon but couldn't find a quiz or test online for NVLD. In any case, it seems like it's something diagnosticians see in children not adults. Quite a few clinicians believe NVLD should be on the Autism spectrum, so in that case, I'd take a test for Autism but I already know I have it.


You have to take a special IQ test to get diagnosed with NVLD. You probably have it if you're clumsy, have a bad sense of direction, can't tell left from right, struggle with driving, are bad at math (or good at math but have to learn it your own way), and have Aspergers + high verbal ability. My doc said it's a common comorbid with Aspergers.



redrobin62
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31 Jan 2013, 12:53 am

Thanks, Tyri0n. By your definition of NVLD it seems I probably don't have it. I'm not clumsy, I play a lot of video games where you wander through passages and mazes, I used to drive a taxi and I would say I'm okay with math. I'm not a genius at it, but I got through trigonometry and algebra okay.



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31 Jan 2013, 2:13 am

Callista wrote:
Seems like AS would confer a vulnerability to Avoidant PD... Or more precisely, the cultural bias against those with AS would make you vulnerable.


Yes, here is a study about it: Personality disorders and autism spectrum disorders:
what are the connections?


"4.3.1. Avoidant PD
Criteria for avoidant PD do not necessarily entail the core
features for PDD/ASD (eg, impairment in social communication
and interaction and restricted repertoire of activity).
When markedly avoidant behavior is present in individuals
with PDD/ASD, it could rather be seen as a consequence of
the PDD/ASD. For some individuals with AS, their disability
in interpreting social cues leads to a major concern about
what impression they make on others and even a disabling
fear for social situations, thus increasing the risk for avoidant
behavior. Moreover, elevated sensitivity to stressful environments
because of visual and auditory perceptual difficulties
may well contribute to avoidant behavior. Nevertheless,
avoidant PD can clearly exist without the core difficulties of
a PDD/ASD."


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31 Jan 2013, 3:18 pm

I have an avoidant personality and I think it's a consequence of the reactions I got as a child/teenager. I was doing something wrong and never figured out what it was and how to correct it. I'm sensitive, so it bothered me that I wasn't being perceived in the the way I was attempting to project myself. So I developed social anxiety, which then led on to just avoiding certain situations altogether. I don't have any diagnosis at all, but my life story can't be denied.


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31 Jan 2013, 9:10 pm

Why not be APD? And do you need to have more than just a couple of symptoms? I don't think so.

Are you going to avoid / continue to avoid others if you've been the recipient of mostly nothing and/or pain? Sure.

People give me nothing because I don't require or know how to require anything, and I don't seem to do anything for them. At that point you just have different things to be concerned about, or just a concern for not much of anything. This leads to a pleasant sense of stability. I used to confuse this with depression but I think that's just the boredom aspect of it.

And in the end, you're dead like everyone else - so what?


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06 May 2013, 2:38 pm

13 out of 18.

Millon's subtype - Self-deserting.


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Raziel
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06 May 2013, 2:51 pm

I've those:

1. Hypersensitivity to rejection/criticism
2. Self-imposed social isolation
3. Extreme shyness or anxiety in social situations, [though the person feels a strong desire for close relationships]
5. Feelings of inadequacy
6. [Severe] low self-esteem
8. Mistrust of others
12. Problems in occupational functioning
13. Lonely self-perception, although others may find the relationship with them meaningful
16. Utilizes fantasy as a form of escapism and to interrupt painful thoughts
17. Depression

But I'm pretty sure I've more social phobia, because I've times were I behave nearly the opposite of avoidant.


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06 May 2013, 4:19 pm

Well, #2, #3, #4, #11 and #12 could be directly due to AS. You'd have to check carefully that it's due to feelings of social inadequacy, as opposed to reduced sociability, realistic appraisal of poor social skills, tactile defensiveness (for #4) or various other AS-related issues (especially for #12).

But if you have enough of the other traits, I don't see why not.