[UK] Schoolboy excluded for 'making Nazi salute in class'

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Fnord
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06 Feb 2013, 3:15 pm

Tequila wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Even if he was being sarcastic, racism has no place in a civilized society.
What if it, er, wasn't racist?

How could it not be? Was he trying out for a part in "The Producers"?


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Tequila
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06 Feb 2013, 3:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
How could it not be?


I've used Hitler salutes in the past to mock people who I thought were being very authoritarian. No racism of any kind was meant.



Fnord
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06 Feb 2013, 3:24 pm

Tequila wrote:
Fnord wrote:
How could it not be?
I've used Hitler salutes in the past to mock people who I thought were being very authoritarian. No racism of any kind was meant.

Ahh ... I see your point. Mocking authority is alright, but if the person in authority being mocked just happens to be a non-Aryan or a Jew, then the case could easily be made for racist intent.


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Tequila
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06 Feb 2013, 3:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
Mocking authority is alright, but if the person in authority being mocked just happens to be a non-Aryan or a Jew, then the case could easily be made for racist intent.


Agreed. Or a Communist, or an ethnic Pole, or disabled. Context is everything in a case like this. If he used racist language as well, then that's another bent towards the salute being racist.



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06 Feb 2013, 3:32 pm

So we've pretty well narrowed it down to being non-racist in context only if the teacher was a blond, blue-eyed person of Teutonic ancestry wearing jackboots and a brown shirt.

Was the teacher's name "Wagner", by any chance?

;)


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visagrunt
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06 Feb 2013, 4:32 pm

So what if it wasn't motivated by racism?

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officials from Meopham School, in Meopham, Kent, handed him a two-hour detention.


A two-hour detention! Let's get some perspective here. The boy was mocking his teacher. Teachers and schools are entitled to used punishments like a two hour detention for the purposes of reinforcing discipline in the classroom.

He wasn't suspended. He wasn't subjected to corporal punishment. He was given a punishment appropriate to a 13 year old disrupting a classroom.


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06 Feb 2013, 4:37 pm

visagrunt wrote:
So what if it wasn't motivated by racism?


That's what I said. It would just be a kid being disruptive or 'talking back', and would be less serious.



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06 Feb 2013, 5:33 pm

Schneekugel wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
Don't mention the war!

He could claim do have done a Charlie Chaplin impersonation.
Is it ok to post a video of someone doing a Hitler parody, or is that against the rules?


Comedians like Charlie Chaplin or members of Monthy Python or Mr. Bean have the advantage that in areas they are known, they dont need to introduce themselfs as comedian normally. In areas they are not known, they should still tell their audience, that they will be doing jokes. When introducing new artists, I´d say so before.

And we do have great comedians in Austria that are doing jokes about Hitler and Nazi. But as you said, the 14 year old wanted to compare his teacher with Hitler. Thats a big trivialization and there are people taking such thing as offend. And for the teacher himself it is defenitly an offend. If i had called my teacher something less trivial like as*hole or something, i would have much more trouble then 3 hours dispense.


I wouldn't have gotten 3 hours detention for calling my teacher an as*hole, even 15 years ago. I would only probably have been sent outside the class to have the teacher have 'strong words' with me. British schools are generally soft on discipline, especially in 'deprived' areas.

I once taught a special class to students who had been expelled from high school and they could call the teacher anything they liked. They bragged about committing racist crimes (like beating up minorities just for being minorities). I tried to discipline the students for saying racist things; they said awful, racist things. I can't repeat them here - but I could tell you privately, if you like. I got politely dismissed from that post.

The boy in this story probably went to a 'good school' in a middle class area. They actually have some discipline in those schools.



Last edited by puddingmouse on 06 Feb 2013, 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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06 Feb 2013, 5:38 pm

visagrunt wrote:
So what if it wasn't motivated by racism?

Quote:
officials from Meopham School, in Meopham, Kent, handed him a two-hour detention.


A two-hour detention! Let's get some perspective here. The boy was mocking his teacher. Teachers and schools are entitled to used punishments like a two hour detention for the purposes of reinforcing discipline in the classroom.

He wasn't suspended. He wasn't subjected to corporal punishment. He was given a punishment appropriate to a 13 year old disrupting a classroom.


to be fair, when I was at school I recieved detention for less.

For being involved in fights that i didnt instigate, for example. What made it extra interesting was that it meant i had to miss my bus and had to walk home through the north belfast peace divide in full view of the Ardoyne estate with my red, white and blue school uniform. Fun times.

this was in the early to mid nineties when bombs and bullets were very much a problem.


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06 Feb 2013, 6:09 pm

Too much over-sensitivity over the whole nazi thing.
WAY too much.
:roll:


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thomas81
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06 Feb 2013, 6:10 pm

Raptor wrote:
Too much over-sensitivity over the whole nazi thing.
WAY too much.
:roll:


he disrespected the teachers authority, he disrupted the class. He got 2 hours detention. Big deal, he should suck it up and move on.


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06 Feb 2013, 9:48 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Too much over-sensitivity over the whole nazi thing.
WAY too much.
:roll:


he disrespected the teachers authority, he disrupted the class. He got 2 hours detention. Big deal, he should suck it up and move on.


That teacher wouldn't last long in some schools over here.


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ModusPonens
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06 Feb 2013, 10:07 pm

Raptor wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Too much over-sensitivity over the whole nazi thing.
WAY too much.
:roll:


he disrespected the teachers authority, he disrupted the class. He got 2 hours detention. Big deal, he should suck it up and move on.


That teacher wouldn't last long in some schools over here.


Yes. But who's wrong? The teacher? Or the undisciplined students? The school system must give power to teachers to solve these (and worse) things happening in the classroom.



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06 Feb 2013, 10:12 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
Raptor wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Too much over-sensitivity over the whole nazi thing.
WAY too much.
:roll:


he disrespected the teachers authority, he disrupted the class. He got 2 hours detention. Big deal, he should suck it up and move on.


That teacher wouldn't last long in some schools over here.


Yes. But who's wrong? The teacher? Or the undisciplined students? The school system must give power to teachers to solve these (and worse) things happening in the classroom.


Yes, but it's the kind of thing that happens every day.
Not really national news material no matter how you look at it.
It's the Hitler thing that has their panties in a knot.


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Tensu
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06 Feb 2013, 10:57 pm

I once got suspended for a week for asking some kids who were picking on me to apologize.