Preachers of hate spread their violent word on British TV

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Prud
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10 Feb 2013, 7:45 pm

For those of you that want these religious groups to be banned from spouting their idiotic views on TV, really confuses me.
Because you quote the reason you hold your anti-Islamic views is probably for similar reasons to mine, because they are hate filled religious nuts. And you know this because they openly state this crap in the media, and I for one want them to continue to openly spread their hate. That way the vast majority of people, will see them for what they are, backward uneducated cretins. When Ray Comfort's video about bananas was aired to a wider audience it was ridiculed for the insane crap it was, no-one who was already in the club thought it was foolish. It's only when views are aired to the wider audience do they come under real scrutiny and are shown up as idiocy.

To use a sniper analogy, it is easier to hit your target when they're out in the open, than when they hide within a crowd. Banning them from media will only serve to assist them to preach to the converted within their mosques, temples & churches. That's where they find their willing suicide bombers, not via media coverage, such coverage in my opinion, strengthens the argument for freedom from religion.

When they had Nick Griffin (BNP Leader) on Newsnight it did not result in people on mass joining the BNP, nor when Sinn Fein were un-muted on TV did that result in greater support either.

The same rules for banning these idiots from media coverage could easily be turned on people like me for my anti-theist views.

The Atheist movement is growing because this crap can be heard, seen and its affects felt, not because it is banned from ever getting to our ears. Public opinions are changing to the secular and long may this trend continue.


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Tequila
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10 Feb 2013, 8:13 pm

Prud wrote:
Because you quote the reason you hold your anti-Islamic views is probably for similar reasons to mine, because they are hate filled religious nuts.


Prud wrote:
And you know this because they openly state this crap in the media


Almost never from hearing them on British TV though. It's almost always from Arab countries (like the PA, Hamas, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Yemen, and so on).

Prud wrote:
I for one want them to continue to openly spread their hate. That way the vast majority of people, will see them for what they are, backward uneducated cretins.


Actual Islamic speeches like these are never aired properly (or hardly at all), uncut and properly subtitled, on mainstream TV. This is because the mainstream media does as much as it can to protect Islam and censors the true nature of the debate in many Muslim countries, probably because of fear. Look at the sheer opprobrium they heap on anti-Islam voices for instance. The only way that people can see for themselves is through the likes of MEMRI, who have done sterling work in showing us what is broadcast on TV in Arab countries.

And, as I said, these speeches are put on satellite TV channels that are aimed at (mainly) Pakistani Muslims. They won't be seen by the rest of the population.

I have no problem with them calling for an Islamic caliphate, or whatever. But if we are sure that we're going to allow them to call for the murder of unbelievers, gays and apostates, are we ready to allow the rest of society the same privilege? And what if simply airing these views does not have the desired effect - the effect that you and I both hope will lead to rationality and tolerance, but actually leads to them becoming far more popular, ingrained and harder to remove?

Prud wrote:
It's only when views are aired to the wider audience do they come under real scrutiny and are shown up as idiocy.


The thing that I wonder about is that airing them to a wider audience may well not lance the boil but might make Muslims even more paranoid. I don't think simply mocking them on TV will work. It's going to take a lot more than that.

Prud wrote:
Banning them from media will only serve to assist them to preach to the converted within their mosques, temples & churches.


I never suggested banning them from the media. I suggested that they face punishment when they break the law on, for example, the incitement to violence legislation. If you're going to have a law like that, enforce it equally.

The BNP would be prosecuted if Griffin called for beating up 'Pakis' on TV (obviously, Griffin would be treated like the scumbag he is). Islamic fanatics should be treated no differently, and I actually suspect that views amongst Muslims are more polarised. Perhaps citing the popularity of Golden Shower would be better.

Prud wrote:
When they had Nick Griffin (BNP Leader) on Newsnight it did not result in people on mass joining the BNP, nor when Sinn Fein were un-muted on TV did that result in greater support either.


Actually, Sinn Féin went from zero seats in the House of Commons in 1992 to two seats in 1997, nearly doubling the number of votes they polled. I don't think that was to do with the broadcast ban though!
In the mainly Christian, Jewish and (to an extent) Hindu communities, yes. However, I'm not at all sure that this is the case with Muslims in Britain.



ModusPonens
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10 Feb 2013, 8:23 pm

The main problem is not conversion to islam. It's the radicalisation of islam in Britain. If these fascists are alowed to say what they want they can shift the tendency from moderation of islam to radicalisation of islam.



Tequila
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10 Feb 2013, 8:26 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
It's the radicalisation of islam in Britain.


I agree with this. Some of the younger generation actually seem more backward and less integrated than the original immigrants from Pakistan in the 1960s/1970s. Having said that, you get a lot that have integrated properly too. I think it's a mixture of both. It's a mistake to see Muslims as all one monolith.



xenon13
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10 Feb 2013, 9:53 pm

Islam does not make it a moral duty to kill Jews... really!

Has anyone ever heard of the 700 Club?



Tequila
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10 Feb 2013, 9:57 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Islam does not make it a moral duty to kill Jews... really!


The authentic hadith regarding the stones and trees - quoted in the Hamas Charter - makes it pretty clear from where I sit.

And what about the 700 Club? As far as I can see, Pat Robertson is an absolute a***hole, a pain-in-the-arse American televangelist tosspot.

I have about as much time for Christian fundamentalist a***holes as I have for Islamic fundamentalist a***holes. Difference is that they (mostly) don't kill people these days.



xenon13
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11 Feb 2013, 1:14 am

There is no commandment in Islam demanding the extermination of the Jews. If there was, why are there Jewish communities in Iran and in Syria, for example? Why is half of Israel's population native of countries that are majority Muslim. They should have been subject to a Holocaust there... oh, sorry, that's the Ashkhenazi that were subject to that in enlightened Europe.



Declension
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11 Feb 2013, 2:13 am

I wonder whether Tequila would approve of Pat Condell getting a TV show.



Tequila
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11 Feb 2013, 8:20 am

Declension wrote:
I wonder whether Tequila would approve of Pat Condell getting a TV show.


Sure, why not. I doubt Condell himself would want to do that, because he's already had threats from people when he mooted returning to the stage. Most threats - usually from Islamists - he can safely ignore, but some of those he would have to take more seriously.

I'm not against these clerics spreading their bile on TV - calling for their caliphate and stuff like that - as long as they don't call for people to be murdered. Islamic satellite TV channels have a long history for calling for violence, not just against non-Muslims and apostates but against Ahmadi Muslims and Sufis. My point is simple: if you're going to allow Muslim clerics to call for gays to be killed, you must accept that the BNP, the EDL and everyone else has the same privilege. Pat Condell has never encouraged violence on gays, Jews, Muslims, or anyone else.

If Pat Condell started calling for Muslims to be murdered or beaten, all but the extreme far-right would abandon him. I know I would, but that's emphatically not his style anyway.



Last edited by Tequila on 11 Feb 2013, 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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11 Feb 2013, 9:16 am

xenon13 wrote:
There is no commandment in Islam demanding the extermination of the Jews.


There is, and I can prove it.

xenon13 wrote:
If there was, why are there Jewish communities in Iran and in Syria, for example?


There were an awful lot more Jews in Iran before Khomeini than now. There used to be 80,000 Jews in Iran. Now, there are about 9,000 or less. Almost all of them fled to the Little Satan or the Great Satan respectively.

As for the remaining Jews - they feel very beleaguered and under threat, and are mainly trying to get by and live as best they can.

xenon13 wrote:
Why is half of Israel's population native of countries that are majority Muslim.


Because the Islamic texts allow Jews and Christians to live in Muslim lands, subject to accepting second-class, or dhimmi status.



xenon13
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11 Feb 2013, 4:17 pm

Tequila wrote:
Because the Islamic texts allow Jews and Christians to live in Muslim lands, subject to accepting second-class, or dhimmi status.


How can this be so if the commandment is to kill all the Jews?



Tequila
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11 Feb 2013, 4:38 pm

xenon13 wrote:
How can this be so if the commandment is to kill all the Jews?


Because one can be used in more extreme circumstances than the other. The general gist of it is that if Jews have been completely overpowered, then it's OK to treat them as second-class citizens (particularly if they bring in money). If they are in the 'dominant' position, like in Israel - then there is the provision to kill all the Jews.

Neither way of life is preferable.