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Tyri0n
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16 Feb 2013, 4:02 am

I don't think this is to an extent that makes me visibly dysfunctional, but I do think it makes me an unusually good liar -- and often an unintentional one. Also, sometimes the first words out of my mouth are lies because I have to think for a bit to distinguish truth from imagination, and I don't have time to do this in social situations.

I also have a very strong concept of morality being relative, not absolute, stronger than anyone else I know.

I'm wondering if these are autistic traits, or schizoid traits.



ezbzbfcg2
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16 Feb 2013, 4:12 am

Tyri0n wrote:
I don't think this is to an extent that makes me visibly dysfunctional, but I do think it makes me an unusually good liar -- and often an unintentional one. Also, sometimes the first words out of my mouth are lies because I have to think for a bit to distinguish truth from imagination, and I don't have time to do this in social situations.

I also have a very strong concept of morality being relative, not absolute, stronger than anyone else I know.

I'm wondering if these are autistic traits, or schizoid traits.


You shouldn't presume your sense of morality is based more on relativism than those of others. NTs will often talk in absolutes, but secretly treat morality as relative to a situation, or an individual, regardless of what they say.

Nonetheless, what you describe here isn't schizoid PD by any means. A schizoid wouldn't feel any need to lie based on imagination.

What you have sounds like a coping mechanism for Avoidant PD or Social Anxiety.



hyksos55
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16 Feb 2013, 10:53 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Nonetheless, what you describe here isn't schizoid PD by any means. A schizoid wouldn't feel any need to lie based on imagination.

What you have sounds like a coping mechanism for Avoidant PD or Social Anxiety.


This seems true for me. I am more apt to be too honest, if I even speak at all. I do have I believe a strong sense of social justice which allows me to navigate properly through most interactions. Rather if this mannerism is unique to me or it is a trait of SPD I can not say.


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EXPECIALLY
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16 Feb 2013, 5:51 pm

l certainly don't fit the absolute moralistic profile you see associated with AS sometimes. Though l think it's more about being attached to higher truths, which l am, it manifests in a way that is focused on always telling the truth and doing the absolute "right" thing in all situations for some Aspies but not all.

l don't want to say anything offensive about SPD here but l might say you don't really rub me the way that crowd does, Of course there is variation within the crowd, but a good number of people with AS are misdiagnosed with SPD anyway. The "true" schizoids seem different.

On this site you notice civil conversation and a willingness and even eagerness to share ideas even if most people here are introverts who have trouble maintaining friendships.

That wasn't my experience on the schizoid forum at all. There was no value placed on conversation itself, the posters were actually quite ready to tear each other down and play the social dominance game and it was essentially dead, anyway.

not all were like that,but again, there are some mislabeled aspies there. l got a misanthropic NT vibe more than anything. where the "truth" was selectively told to hurt feelings. Not born out of an attachment with truth seeking.

l should add that it's entirely possible a good number of the posters actually were misanthropic NTs who may not have even had a SPD label, though.


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hyksos55
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17 Feb 2013, 1:44 am

EXPECIALLY wrote:
l certainly don't fit the absolute moralistic profile you see associated with AS sometimes. Though l think it's more about being attached to higher truths, which l am, it manifests in a way that is focused on always telling the truth and doing the absolute "right" thing in all situations for some Aspies but not all.

l don't want to say anything offensive about SPD here but l might say you don't really rub me the way that crowd does, Of course there is variation within the crowd, but a good number of people with AS are misdiagnosed with SPD anyway. The "true" schizoids seem different.

On this site you notice civil conversation and a willingness and even eagerness to share ideas even if most people here are introverts who have trouble maintaining friendships.

That wasn't my experience on the schizoid forum at all. There was no value placed on conversation itself, the posters were actually quite ready to tear each other down and play the social dominance game and it was essentially dead, anyway.

not all were like that,but again, there are some mislabeled aspies there. l got a misanthropic NT vibe more than anything. where the "truth" was selectively told to hurt feelings. Not born out of an attachment with truth seeking.

l should add that it's entirely possible a good number of the posters actually were misanthropic NTs who may not have even had a SPD label, though.

You bring up some good points. I don't know anyone else with SPD so I have nothing to compare myself too. What I have read and what I have been told by my Psychologist gives me the impression that someone with SPD is not really interested in relationships, they don't have the same desire to interact with others like a normal person may have. It seems with AS there is a desire to interact, the only reason one may hold back is because they aren’t sure how. It is said that people with SPD may appear cool and aloof and really flat line in their emotions, I have not heard of being belligerent as a trait. Perhaps the people you have encounter are just bitter at the world, I could see that happening as we tend to find little joy in anything. I find it interesting that you are seeking answers to SPD, are you looking for something in particular?


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Tyri0n
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17 Feb 2013, 11:14 am

hyksos55 wrote:
EXPECIALLY wrote:
l certainly don't fit the absolute moralistic profile you see associated with AS sometimes. Though l think it's more about being attached to higher truths, which l am, it manifests in a way that is focused on always telling the truth and doing the absolute "right" thing in all situations for some Aspies but not all.

l don't want to say anything offensive about SPD here but l might say you don't really rub me the way that crowd does, Of course there is variation within the crowd, but a good number of people with AS are misdiagnosed with SPD anyway. The "true" schizoids seem different.

On this site you notice civil conversation and a willingness and even eagerness to share ideas even if most people here are introverts who have trouble maintaining friendships.

That wasn't my experience on the schizoid forum at all. There was no value placed on conversation itself, the posters were actually quite ready to tear each other down and play the social dominance game and it was essentially dead, anyway.

not all were like that,but again, there are some mislabeled aspies there. l got a misanthropic NT vibe more than anything. where the "truth" was selectively told to hurt feelings. Not born out of an attachment with truth seeking.

l should add that it's entirely possible a good number of the posters actually were misanthropic NTs who may not have even had a SPD label, though.

You bring up some good points. I don't know anyone else with SPD so I have nothing to compare myself too. What I have read and what I have been told by my Psychologist gives me the impression that someone with SPD is not really interested in relationships, they don't have the same desire to interact with others like a normal person may have. It seems with AS there is a desire to interact, the only reason one may hold back is because they aren’t sure how. It is said that people with SPD may appear cool and aloof and really flat line in their emotions, I have not heard of being belligerent as a trait. Perhaps the people you have encounter are just bitter at the world, I could see that happening as we tend to find little joy in anything. I find it interesting that you are seeking answers to SPD, are you looking for something in particular?


Some aspects of SPD applied to me more when I was younger. Definitely the belligerence, misanthropy, and bullying. I always attributed this to ODD, however.

I am cool and flat line in my emotions, yet some of my assessments picked up psychological distress, such as depression and anxiety. I may have more desire to interact with others. But when I am interacting with others, I have a strong desire not to interact with others. When I am in a romantic relationship, give me 30-60 days, and I have a strong compulsion to get out.

The accidental compulsive lying is also incompatible with ASD. I guess not SPD either?



hyksos55
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17 Feb 2013, 5:00 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Some aspects of SPD applied to me more when I was younger. Definitely the belligerence, misanthropy, and bullying. I always attributed this to ODD, however.

I am cool and flat line in my emotions, yet some of my assessments picked up psychological distress, such as depression and anxiety. I may have more desire to interact with others. But when I am interacting with others, I have a strong desire not to interact with others. When I am in a romantic relationship, give me 30-60 days, and I have a strong compulsion to get out.

The accidental compulsive lying is also incompatible with ASD. I guess not SPD either?


Since I too exhibit a cool and flat line personality my assessments pick up depression and anxiety as well. I do have anxiety but I don’t believe I have depression, because one of the traits of SPD is you don’t find much pleasure in anything you do and I think that can come across as being depress. It is very hard for me to stay engaged with others for an extended period of time, unless I find the person to be very interesting (Happily I have found most people on WP to be very interesting) otherwise I can grow very detached.

As far the accidental compulsive lying, it could come from anywhere. If I was to venture a guess I would say it is a self defense mechanism you devolved to protect yourself from a perceived harm and not some moral deficiency.


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10 Mar 2013, 7:39 pm

moral relativism has nothing to do with any kind of disorders. it's simply an inevitable product of modern thought. if your morality is not bound by religious rules, it's very likely to be relativistic.



Sarah81
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11 Mar 2013, 1:51 am

Tyri0n wrote:
I don't think this is to an extent that makes me visibly dysfunctional, but I do think it makes me an unusually good liar -- and often an unintentional one. Also, sometimes the first words out of my mouth are lies because I have to think for a bit to distinguish truth from imagination, and I don't have time to do this in social situations.

I also have a very strong concept of morality being relative, not absolute, stronger than anyone else I know.

I'm wondering if these are autistic traits, or schizoid traits.


I think they're just traits.



Tyri0n
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11 Mar 2013, 8:05 am

Sarah81 wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
I don't think this is to an extent that makes me visibly dysfunctional, but I do think it makes me an unusually good liar -- and often an unintentional one. Also, sometimes the first words out of my mouth are lies because I have to think for a bit to distinguish truth from imagination, and I don't have time to do this in social situations.

I also have a very strong concept of morality being relative, not absolute, stronger than anyone else I know.

I'm wondering if these are autistic traits, or schizoid traits.


I think they're just traits.


Yeah, I think the "schizoid" traits the doc who diagnosed me with ASD picked up were just a temporary thing limited to my depression at that time. I had just come off lexapro, too, which f****d me up bad and created depression.

Compulsive lying--and the rest of my behavior when not depressed-- is more a trait of BPD, I think. So, besides the emptiness, the opposite of schizoid.



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11 Mar 2013, 9:04 am

In the next DSM -the DSM V- there wouldn't be anymore the diagnosis of schizoid PD.
But ASD and schizotypal PD will stay.


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09 Jun 2013, 5:57 pm

Those are schizoid traits, autistic people are mostly honest and may have difficulty lying.



Raziel
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10 Jun 2013, 2:09 am

fMR1 wrote:
Those are schizoid traits, autistic people are mostly honest and may have difficulty lying.


Well I personally think it has nothing to do with neither ASD nor schizoid.


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10 Jun 2013, 9:43 am

Quote:
I don't think this is to an extent that makes me visibly dysfunctional, but I do think it makes me an unusually good liar -- and often an unintentional one. Also, sometimes the first words out of my mouth are lies because I have to think for a bit to distinguish truth from imagination, and I don't have time to do this in social situations.

I also have a very strong concept of morality being relative, not absolute, stronger than anyone else I know.


The 'morality is relative' thing can sometimes be a trait of psychopathy, although some people just strongly believe in relative morality. (Psychopaths seem incapable of seeing morality in absolute terms, but it doesn't mean a non-psychopath can't see things as morally relative as well.)

As for the unintentional lying, that sounds more like either a mild psychotic feature or a dissociative trait.



seaturtleisland
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10 Jun 2013, 10:01 am

Raziel wrote:
In the next DSM -the DSM V- there wouldn't be anymore the diagnosis of schizoid PD.
But ASD and schizotypal PD will stay.


Then what would someone who would've been diagnosed with schizoid PD be diagnosed with in the new DSM?



Raziel
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11 Jun 2013, 10:00 am

seaturtleisland wrote:
Raziel wrote:
In the next DSM -the DSM V- there wouldn't be anymore the diagnosis of schizoid PD.
But ASD and schizotypal PD will stay.


Then what would someone who would've been diagnosed with schizoid PD be diagnosed with in the new DSM?


I don't know exactly. I know that there exists a list how each trait is/can be interpreted in the next DSM. I personally think the best is to diagnostically reevaluate this person in this case again. But so far I know has been schizoid PD a very rare diagnosis in the past.


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