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Who_Am_I
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23 Feb 2013, 4:39 am

I know what's being talked about here. It has nothing to do with anxiety, or with "being enabled". It's a problem where the actual initiation of speech doesn't work unless someone triggers it by talking to you.
I had this problem until I was 18. I trained myself to plan what to say in my head so that I'd have a hope of getting it out. This self-training happened after I finished school; before that I struggled to initiate things as simple as asking someone for the time (and it wasn't due to anxiety). Even now I have big troubles with unplanned speech, and with initiating speech.

Look here: http://www.autreat.com/dsm4-autism.html
Take note of number 2 in the B section.


_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I


Noetic
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23 Feb 2013, 10:35 am

I was the same for years, listening to audio plays and podcasts seems to have brought my auditory processing up to scratch to a point where if it's easier and more convenient to do something by phone, I will. I still find it easier to remember things I've read rather than heard, but at least a notepad and pen to jot down info I'm given straight away helps.



Sweetleaf
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23 Feb 2013, 11:58 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
I know what's being talked about here. It has nothing to do with anxiety, or with "being enabled". It's a problem where the actual initiation of speech doesn't work unless someone triggers it by talking to you.
I had this problem until I was 18. I trained myself to plan what to say in my head so that I'd have a hope of getting it out. This self-training happened after I finished school; before that I struggled to initiate things as simple as asking someone for the time (and it wasn't due to anxiety). Even now I have big troubles with unplanned speech, and with initiating speech.

Look here: http://www.autreat.com/dsm4-autism.html
Take note of number 2 in the B section.


That's intresting, it kind of seems like maybe its possible to get stuck trying to think of how to word it and the right time to say it and this and that but the brain doesn't initiate beyond that point...at least that is another way I would describe it.



Who_Am_I
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23 Feb 2013, 7:18 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
I know what's being talked about here. It has nothing to do with anxiety, or with "being enabled". It's a problem where the actual initiation of speech doesn't work unless someone triggers it by talking to you.
I had this problem until I was 18. I trained myself to plan what to say in my head so that I'd have a hope of getting it out. This self-training happened after I finished school; before that I struggled to initiate things as simple as asking someone for the time (and it wasn't due to anxiety). Even now I have big troubles with unplanned speech, and with initiating speech.

Look here: http://www.autreat.com/dsm4-autism.html
Take note of number 2 in the B section.


That's intresting, it kind of seems like maybe its possible to get stuck trying to think of how to word it and the right time to say it and this and that but the brain doesn't initiate beyond that point...at least that is another way I would describe it.


That was and is part of it, but the main part of the problem for me is my brain having trouble accessing any words in the first place.


_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I


Ann2011
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23 Feb 2013, 10:47 pm

Sarah81 wrote:
Another thing I thought of is that you might have sensitivity to rejection, which occurs in a number of psychiatric conditions or even by itself.

This is my problem with initiating conversation. I know that chances are I'll say something inappropriate or just plain odd. There's a part of me that wants to say "screw it," and not bother. But there's another part that feels lonely and alienated. I hate this feeling, so I force myself to interact.
Hey_there, you mentioned that you can respond with a few words when someone else initiates. What about when you deal with a cashier? Cashiers are the perfect testing ground . . . you can practice on them. After the initial "hi" "hey," say something about the weather or the busyness or quietness of the store - something innocuously common. It really does get easier the more you do it. For me, I have become less affected by their response. The important thing is to practice, so that when it's important that you are able to express yourself, you will be able to.



cozysweater
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25 Feb 2013, 1:38 am

Earlier I deleted a post mainly because I thought it would distract from Venerable1's input about non-anxiety related speechlessness due to other mental health causes (quote below) which I really think warrants some discussion at least:

Quote:
Venerab1e1
I’m exactly the same way, but my problems are caused by my schizophrenia. Psychologists call this symptom of schizophrenia alogia, or sometimes simply refer to it as “poverty of speech.” Basically, it means a person has extreme problems in initiating conversations, and even when they are asked questions, they simply reply with one or two word responses because the persons thought processes are extremely disrupted. I’m not necessarily saying that you also have schizophrenia, but maybe there are other disorders as well that have alogia as a symptom.


I would also like to say that if you reject the idea that the problem comes from a major mental health issue, maybe it's possible that it comes from something less debilitating and more controllable? Something that can be worked on? I reject the idea that if you can speak to someone AFTER the ice has been broken, that you are still INCAPABLE of speaking to them before that? Nonsense. Practice. Life is hard. You'll get used to it.

eta: hmm. After posting it occurred to me that you all are unlikely to see that the "life is hard, you get used to it" thing is mostly
a joke quoting the movie The Long Kiss Goodnight. I do mean it a little, but not nearly as harshly as that sounds.



Who_Am_I
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25 Feb 2013, 3:29 am

Personally, I'd call it a neurological issue.
One that's real no matter how much you reject it.


_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I


Sarah81
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25 Feb 2013, 4:02 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
Personally, I'd call it a neurological issue.
One that's real no matter how much you reject it.


People with movement disorders that are neurologically based describe issues starting a movement (initiation), stopping a movement/repeating a movement, changing movements etc.

Also consider that the speech act is the most complex motor movement we have.



cozysweater
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25 Feb 2013, 4:18 am

Sarah81 wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
Personally, I'd call it a neurological issue.
One that's real no matter how much you reject it.


People with movement disorders that are neurologically based describe issues starting a movement (initiation), stopping a movement/repeating a movement, changing movements etc.

Also consider that the speech act is the most complex motor movement we have.


This is the strongest argument I've seen here! Stealing from Google: Speech production is one of the most complex and rapid motor behaviors and involves a precise coordination of over 100 laryngeal, orofacial and respiratory muscles.
Thanks for the insight!



Sarah81
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25 Feb 2013, 4:21 am

cozysweater wrote:

I would also like to say that if you reject the idea that the problem comes from a major mental health issue, maybe it's possible that it comes from something less debilitating and more controllable? Something that can be worked on? I reject the idea that if you can speak to someone AFTER the ice has been broken, that you are still INCAPABLE of speaking to them before that? Nonsense. Practice. Life is hard. You'll get used to it.

eta: hmm. After posting it occurred to me that you all are unlikely to see that the "life is hard, you get used to it" thing is mostly
a joke quoting the movie The Long Kiss Goodnight. I do mean it a little, but not nearly as harshly as that sounds.


Actually this whole part of the post sounds a lot harsher on the surface than it really is. I got led astray the first time I read it and had to go back. Then I realised you are actually cheering on the OP. Although I do have to add, a neurological problem isn't necessarily less debilitating and more controllable than a mental illness. I can take pills and make other changes to control my bipolar, and it's bloody hard work but the outcome to effort ratio is a lot better than, say, someone who has neurologically based speech problems following a stroke. Yes they can improve - a little, with hard work - but many never regain what they had. And I could easily give two examples that would demonstrate the opposite too, so it's really apples vs oranges. I guess my point it - you can't underestimate how difficult it is to have a neurological problem but then you shouldn't underestimate someone's ability to overcome it.



alakazaam
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12 Mar 2013, 11:05 pm

I have the same problem although I improved a lot since middle school. I think it depends on your mood. I tend to talk more if I am happy and a hermit when I am depressed. You have to consider quitting Concerta. I took it for a month. I thought it would improve my social skills, but the opposite happened. I noticed I couldn't think straight and it was messing with my emotions. It was the worst month of my life as I was mute on it. I stopped taking them. My social skills aren't that bad now. I am still quit but I can approach strangers and talk.