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will@rd
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06 Apr 2015, 4:12 pm

Jono wrote:
The argument goes that something as complex as yourself and the universe must of had a creator. However, given that God is more intelligent and more complex, shouldn't that same logic mean that something created God?


The entire question is predicated on ignorance. Time is an absolute only to someone viewing reality from inside the three (actually four) dimensional world of sensory experience. We know that this universe contains at least ten dimensions, meaning there are a great many aspects of our own world of which we are blind and unaware, and there's no reason to believe its the only universe there is. When you consider that consciousness may exist outside the confines of time, then the origin of any Prime Mover becomes moot.

If there is no time, there can be no beginning.

Also, the notion of the Origin of all things being "more complex" is an unnecessary assumption. Pure consciousness would be LESS complex than the coarse, clumsy physical universe descended from it. The complexity you perceive may be the result of individual simple impulses or concepts, layered one upon the other until they become more and more complex.


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AspieOtaku
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07 Apr 2015, 1:11 am

Man created god he is just a concept!


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halleluhwah
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10 Apr 2015, 4:18 pm

I think the best answer is probably that God is causa sui, that whose essence necessitates existence.

God is infinite, which is to say that God does not depend on, or is not limited by, anything outside of God. Ultimately, if you take this view, then there is nothing outside of God.



slave
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11 Apr 2015, 3:38 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
Man created god he is just a concept!


One of his best vid's :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

and yet people don't see it...



slave
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11 Apr 2015, 3:39 pm

halleluhwah wrote:
God is infinite, which is to say that God does not depend on, or is not limited by, anything outside of God.


and you know this to be the case how exactly??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



will@rd
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11 Apr 2015, 4:04 pm

slave wrote:
halleluhwah wrote:
God is infinite, which is to say that God does not depend on, or is not limited by, anything outside of God.


and you know this to be the case how exactly??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


How do you know you aren't dreaming your entire existence right now from a pod inside The Matrix? Prove it.

Has no one read and understood Relativistic Physics? Quantum? String Theory? Time is a perceptual dimension, not an absolute. If time is not absolute, then there can be existence and consciousness without time (though our physical senses don't have the capacity to perceive it or know what its nature might be). If consciousness can exist without time, then the very notion of a "beginning" becomes moot. Concepts like "Beginning" and "Creation" are only relevant in a universe bound by Time.


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halleluhwah
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12 Apr 2015, 6:43 pm

slave wrote:
halleluhwah wrote:
God is infinite, which is to say that God does not depend on, or is not limited by, anything outside of God.


and you know this to be the case how exactly??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


First of all, unless I'm misinterpreting something, I think it's pretty rude to use that smiley in the way you are.

Secondly, "God" is just a name, and frankly, if you really wanted to, you could call hot dogs "God." However, I was using God to refer to the infinite, that than which nothing greater can be conceived. I think there's a pretty solid historical-linguistic basis for using the word in that way. So if we understand God to be infinite, then it follows from the nature of infinity that it can't be limited by anything outside of itself. That which is limited by its other is finite, rather than infinite. This is hardly controversial, I think.



aghogday
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12 Apr 2015, 9:28 pm

halleluhwah wrote:
slave wrote:
halleluhwah wrote:
God is infinite, which is to say that God does not depend on, or is not limited by, anything outside of God.


and you know this to be the case how exactly??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


First of all, unless I'm misinterpreting something, I think it's pretty rude to use that smiley in the way you are.

Secondly, "God" is just a name, and frankly, if you really wanted to, you could call hot dogs "God." However, I was using God to refer to the infinite, that than which nothing greater can be conceived. I think there's a pretty solid historical-linguistic basis for using the word in that way. So if we understand God to be infinite, then it follows from the nature of infinity that it can't be limited by anything outside of itself. That which is limited by its other is finite, rather than infinite. This is hardly controversial, I think.


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Great points of

common sense and logic..:)

And that's a real smile..:)

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peacefully, AND RESPECTFULLY
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IS..;)


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slave
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14 Apr 2015, 11:22 am

halleluhwah wrote:
slave wrote:
halleluhwah wrote:
God is infinite, which is to say that God does not depend on, or is not limited by, anything outside of God.


and you know this to be the case how exactly??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Secondly, "God" is just a name, and frankly, if you really wanted to, you could call hot dogs "God." However, I was using God to refer to the infinite, that than which nothing greater can be conceived. I think there's a pretty solid historical-linguistic basis for using the word in that way. So if we understand God to be infinite, then it follows from the nature of infinity that it can't be limited by anything outside of itself. That which is limited by its other is finite, rather than infinite. This is hardly controversial, I think.


"First of all, unless I'm misinterpreting something, I think it's pretty rude to use that smiley in the way you are."

It isn't a smiley, as they are static.
It is a lol emoticon( :lol: ).
I lol because you profess to know the nature of an imaginary being, a profession which I find to be humorous.
I am lol at your opinion, not you as a person.
You are probably a wonderful person and even if you are, I still find your opinion to be humorous.
:) (this is a smiley)


Are you referring to the infinite and 'God' as mere abstract equivalencies?
or do you believe in a deity/entity?

"I think there's a pretty solid historical-linguistic basis for using the word in that way."

No. Most people are referring to a deity when they use the word "God" and if that isn't what you mean you should clarify this to prevent people from misunderstanding your terms. Go ask people on the street whether the term "God" refers to an abstraction or a deity and the majority will say deity because they have a simplistic understanding of these issues.



RhodyStruggle
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14 Apr 2015, 3:10 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
uwmonkdm wrote:
You don't know that.
You can't even say with certainty that time exists now, or when it started.
Let us not forget that time is only a created concept of the human mind... I suppose that means you're right though :lol:

Of course time exists. D/S=T.


That's a fallacious argument though, affirming the consequent. Velocity is defined in terms of time, so by citing the existence of velocity in support of the existence of time, you're assuming that time exists in order to show that it exists.

And actually, mathematically, the equation you provided simplifies to a simple identity.
Quote:
For:
velocity = displacement / time

Then:
displacement / velocity = time
displacement / (displacement / time) = time
(displacement / displacement)(time) = time
(1)(time) = time
time = time


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