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Solidus
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13 Mar 2013, 9:53 pm

The difference is in how the aluminium is absorbed; if it's in the food most of it gets filtered out by the liver. If injected that's a whole different story.



eric76
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13 Mar 2013, 9:57 pm

Solidus wrote:
The difference is in how the aluminium is absorbed; if it's in the food most of it gets filtered out by the liver. If injected that's a whole different story.
Are you saying that injected aluminum does not enter the bloodstream? If it stays in the muscle tissue, then how does it affect the brain?



Solidus
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13 Mar 2013, 10:03 pm

From the research I've done (disclaimer: I'm not a doctor) it would depend on the type of injection; I'm guessing with intra-muscular it stays in the muscle tissue (which causes a different set of problems). But if injected directly in the bloodstream it bypasses the liver and goes directly to the body organs, including the brain.

Edit: Quick google search, but I think the intra-muscular injection has to do with MMF (ie. the muscular lesions):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11522584



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13 Mar 2013, 10:10 pm

Solidus wrote:
From the research I've done (disclaimer: I'm not a doctor) it would depend on the type of injection; I'm guessing with intra-muscular it stays in the muscle tissue (which causes a different set of problems). But if injected directly in the bloodstream it bypasses the liver and goes directly to the body organs, including the brain.


So blood that contains aluminum that was from food goes through the liver before it goes to body organs including the brain while blood that contains aluminum from vaccines goes to the body organs and the brain completely bypassing the liver?

For what it is worth, my understanding of thimerosal is that medical studies have shown that it is eliminated from the body quite rapidly.



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13 Mar 2013, 10:26 pm

Solidus wrote:
The difference is in how the aluminium is absorbed; if it's in the food most of it gets filtered out by the liver. If injected that's a whole different story.
That doesn't make any sense. The liver isn't connected directly to your small intestine; it's connected by way of the bloodstream. It can't tell the difference between something that comes from an intramuscular injection and something that comes from the digestive system. Either way, it'll process the toxin the same as it always does.

(Well, there's the hepatic duct, but that goes out of the liver, not in. So... doesn't count.)


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Last edited by Callista on 13 Mar 2013, 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Solidus
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13 Mar 2013, 10:26 pm

From what I remember of biology, food is absorbed by the intestines, and the liver is used for filtration. What would be the point of the liver if it only filters out toxins AFTER they had already reached the brain? Some of the aluminum would probably still reach the liver (as the liver needs blood too) but only after some of it was absorbed elsewhere.

As for the medical studies, assuming those can be trusted (which I don't), studies conducted on average people would miss other people who cannot eliminate thiomersal in the same way for whatever reason.



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13 Mar 2013, 10:29 pm

Quote:
That doesn't make any sense. The liver isn't connected directly to your small intestine; it's connected by way of the bloodstream. It can't tell the difference between something that comes from an intramuscular injection and something that comes from the digestive system. Either way, it'll process the toxin the same as it always does.


In light of my assumption above, that's not very reassuring.

But the question remains, whether it processes the toxin before or after it traveled through the other organs.

From a quick search:

http://publications.nigms.nih.gov/medby ... pter1.html

Quote:
A drug's life in the body. Medicines taken by mouth (oral) pass through the liver before they are absorbed into the bloodstream. Other forms of drug administration bypass the liver, entering the blood directly.



Callista
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13 Mar 2013, 10:36 pm

Solidus wrote:
From what I remember of biology, food is absorbed by the intestines, and the liver is used for filtration. What would be the point of the liver if it only filters out toxins AFTER they had already reached the brain? Some of the aluminum would probably still reach the liver (as the liver needs blood too) but only after some of it was absorbed elsewhere.
The blood-brain barrier is pretty good at keeping nasty stuff (especially microorganisms) from reaching the brain. (Blood-brain barrier here meaning the little helper cells that exchange nutrients and wastes between the blood and the brain. It's not a direct connection like it is with the rest of your body.) Some things go through, some don't.

Anyways, yeah, the liver pretty much goes, "This level of this particular substance is too high; let's deal with it," and restores homeostasis--puts your body back in balance. Poisoning only happens if the amount of toxin is too high for the body to deal with it before it causes damage. That can happen either because you took a huge dose of the toxin and it outpaced the ability of your body to get rid of it, or because your liver or kidneys are damaged and can't work as well as they should. That's why an iron supplement is beneficial, but if you take a whole bottle at once you'll die from it--it throws your body out of balance so quickly that your system is overwhelmed and can't recover. (Well, unless you go to the hospital, where they can get the iron out of your digestive system and bloodstream before it does too much damage.)


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13 Mar 2013, 10:37 pm

There was a study done on Autistic brains (dead) that showed it was something that happened in the womb. Considering also that they found the ASD brains had more cells, that really rules out brain damage. Unfortunately, as they had to work with dead brains, they were unable to obtain many specimens, so it can't be the best judge for all cases of an ASD.
http://www.ibtimes.com/study-autism-key ... 7100?cid=5

As for the "late onset autism" or "regressive autism", I don't think vaccines would play a part in that, or at least not completely, as unvaccinated children have regressed. Some studies suggest a gut/brain issue, although I don't know much about that.


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13 Mar 2013, 10:41 pm

So the number of vaccines containing any mercury at all was drastically reduced in 2001.

Was there a corresponding drop in new autism diagnoses?

No.On the contrary autism rates continued to rise.

This is strongly suggestive of there being no causal relationship.


Is the ethyl mercury in Thimoseral the same as the methyl mercury that causes mercury poisoning? No it is metabolized differently--this is a distinction that makes a difference.



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13 Mar 2013, 10:43 pm

I did a little checking. Apparently the blood containing the freshly absorbed food does travel through the liver before going back toward the heart. I didn't know that.



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13 Mar 2013, 10:43 pm

"Regressive autism" doesn't start out as an NT child though. Before these kids lose skills or halt their development, they are already atypical. And regressions seem to happen at times of developmental pressure, such as preschool and puberty. My theory about it is that the regression in these cases is inevitable--will happen as soon as there's enough stress or as soon as the development reaches some critical stage. That's the way it is in Rett syndrome, which has autism as one of its symptoms; the regression is inevitable there and often gets worse with stress.


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14 Mar 2013, 12:24 am

how about dental fillings...



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14 Mar 2013, 5:24 am

eric76 wrote:
Solidus wrote:
Just because autism isn't primarily caused by mercury-laden vaccines doesn't mean they can't cause autism, or a similar type of brain damage misdiagnosed as autism (in which case it wouldn't be autistic people with high IQs). There are too many testimonies of parents out there seeing a drastic change of behaviour in their children shortly after vaccination to take those studies at face value.


From what I understand, the brains of those with Autism are found to be different than that of others, particularly in the number of neurons in various regions of the brain. Considering that nearly all of our neurons are formed and move into place while we are fetuses, I believe in the second trimester, it is hard to see how this could possibly be caused by mercury after we are born.

But if it is caused by "mercury-laden vaccines", then be happy that there are very few children being born today who will ever be autistic. Yeah, right.


Irrespective of vaccines (which could be concluded to be the final shot that tips a body over the edge) even in the womb babies are exposed to mercury through the mother's diet and perhaps environment too. It could be that people that get autism from mercury are genetically susceptible which could be why not everyone exposed in the same way gets it.

I believe autism has different possible causes, of which mercury could be only one.


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14 Mar 2013, 5:33 am

whirlingmind wrote:
Irrespective of vaccines (which could be concluded to be the final shot that tips a body over the edge) even in the womb babies are exposed to mercury through the mother's diet and perhaps environment too. It could be that people that get autism from mercury are genetically susceptible which could be why not everyone exposed in the same way gets it.

I believe autism has different possible causes, of which mercury could be only one.


Unless mercury can somehow account for the differences in brain structure seen in the Autistic, there is no reason to believe that it has anything at all to do with even one case of Autism, much less large numbers of cases.



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14 Mar 2013, 5:59 am

Solidus wrote:
From what I remember of biology, food is absorbed by the intestines, and the liver is used for filtration. What would be the point of the liver if it only filters out toxins AFTER they had already reached the brain? Some of the aluminum would probably still reach the liver (as the liver needs blood too) but only after some of it was absorbed elsewhere.


The liver isn't used for filtration, that's the kidneys. The liver breaks down toxic molecules chemically, it doesn't remove them from the blood per se, it merely alters them so as to make them less toxic and more soluble, so that they can then be more easily filtered out by the kidneys and excreted. Nothing can get into the kidneys without first being in the bloodstream.

As for mercury or aluminium causing autism, has anyone stopped to consider that it may be neither of these and that instead orange juice is responsible? I was given lots of orange juice when I was young, and now I'm autistic. Coincidence? I think not. I bet plenty of people here also drank lots of orange juice when they were young too.

Oh, and we should probably also consider spaghetti while we're at it. I'm very suspicious of the profit motivations of Big Pasta.