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GGPViper
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30 Mar 2013, 5:52 pm

Sylkat wrote:
While discussing the treatment of Arabic Muslim women found guilty of adultery, specifically, some well-publicized deaths by stoning, a neighbor ( from Jordan, and a Muslim) told me that the Q'uran does not demand death as punishment, but rather a caning or whipping.

In our view, still extreme, but the point is that the 'literalists' are NOT following the letter of their own law.

Sylkat

It is not that simple, unless they belong to the very small fraction of Muslims known as Qur'anists.

Sharia law in (Sunni) Islam has two main sources, the Qur'an and the Hadith (the words and deeds of Muhammad, documented through narration by pious Muslims).

Stoning for adultery is mandated according to the most authoritative Hadith collections: Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

Furthermore, according to the Hadith, Muhammad *reinstated* stoning as a penalty for adultery in Medina during his lifetime after the Jewish inhabitants of the city had abandoned this practice...

Oh... and...

Image
Source: http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/mus ... hezbollah/

I doubt the Egyptian Muslims (82 percent in favour of stoning for adultery) got the scripture all wrong, as Egypt is probably the contemporary intellectual centre of Islam.


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30 Mar 2013, 6:16 pm

Although it's also true that Bin Laden's partner in crime, Zawahiri (I'm certain I misspelled this) is Egyptian, is educated (a pediatrician), and he and his fellow Egyptian terrorists are in many circles considered to be the actual brains of Al Qaeda. It's not uncommon for a culture to have two contradictory faces. Case in point - Germany in the past had been both a beacon of intellectualism, the arts, and liberal idealism, and yet, alongside that was authoritarianism, jingoistic nationalism, and anti-intellectualism.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Sosiologismus
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30 Mar 2013, 10:34 pm

If this is true then Islam clearly have many ancient methods of social control in their ideology. When that is the case it is expected that the religion/ideology modernizes to modern day standards, like what Christianity has done. A religion is bound to have a lot of baggage left from when it was constructed. Secularization is also an expected positive progression. I don't know if that is relevant for Islam at this point. (Since its followers are very attached to the religion in their state of being poor, marginalized, discriminized and war ravaged in the Arab countries. With little social progression.)

Tequila wrote:
Islam has the inbuilt handicap of the death penalty to anyone that leaves their religion or who criticises it. (See Sharia).

I have listened to discussions with many ex-Muslims and some of the more liberal Muslims, and they cannot seriously see a way that Islam can be reformed whilst leaving the central theology of the thing intact.


Then it is the question of taking the religion literally or not. Moderate(?) muslims most definitely will be critical of their religion and intergrate it into modern society and its rules. So how important is the central theology, can't you ignore or look at it critically, and not follow it, if you are an enlightened muslim? Many religions are violent and obscure in its original, literal form, and the Arab world may have been (because of reasons I don't know) more of a brutal place than others, but can't muslims look past it? The cultic traditions of religions aren't/shouldn't be necessary anymore, how do you get the people to disattach themselves of it?