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Fnord
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24 Mar 2013, 6:41 pm

If the mods are "supposed" to delete anti-Islam posts, then in the interest of equality and fairness, they should be required to delete posts that criticize every other religion as well.


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CyborgUprising
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24 Mar 2013, 6:42 pm

Just because she didn't say "yes," doesn't mean she said "no.":shameonyou: :twisted:



Fnord
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24 Mar 2013, 6:46 pm

CyborgUprising wrote:
Just because she didn't say "yes," doesn't mean she said "no.":shameonyou: :twisted:

'No' means 'No'.

'Maybe' means 'No'.

'Yes' means 'No'.

Silence means that you're going to catch Hell no matter what you do.



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24 Mar 2013, 8:21 pm

If the 'drunk teenaged girl' is the one (probably) drugged, transported from party to party intermittently unconscious, repeatedly vomiting, laughed at, used by at least two at a time (witness testimony), photographed and videotaped during repeated assaults, as the result of a set-up by a supposed ex-boyfriend, (Malik Richmond said"I just did a favor for a friend now I'm in trouble); why should people not be outraged?

The teen-aged girl in the Maldives has had a horrible life, and what she has suffered is worse, but why should there be contempt for the American girl?

The Maldivans believe they are obeying God/Allah, they deny none of this.

The assistant coach in Steubenville, however, when word got out of what happened, called all team members and told them to erase/delete any and everything pertaining to the parties, the victim, any indication of knowledge of any of it!

That is guilt, that is cover-up, that is awareness of gang rape.


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trollcatman
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24 Mar 2013, 8:31 pm

Sylkat wrote:

The Maldivans believe they are obeying God/Allah, they deny none of this.

The assistant coach in Steubenville, however, when word got out of what happened, called all team members and told them to erase/delete any and everything pertaining to the parties, the victim, any indication of knowledge of any of it!

That is guilt, that is cover-up, that is awareness of gang rape.


Sylkat


The people doing a cover-up are at least aware they did something wrong. And in this case the Steubenville idiots will be punished for what they did.

The Maldivans are giving a girl lashes over nothing because they believe a god nobody has ever seen wants them to. They don't even know they are the bad guys here. And of course nobody will be punished because in this case it is the government doing it. The fact that these people don't have the moral compass to see that what they are doing is wrong is in my opinion worse than people who realize they did something wrong (that is the first step in correcting behavior) and just try not to get punished.



MCalavera
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24 Mar 2013, 8:42 pm

Can anyone point out to me the reference to the girl being gang-raped?

All I read is that she was raped by one person (namely, the stepfather), and that she also had sex with another man (sex which she apparently "consented" to).

Now, in the Western mind, this could still be understood as rape because of the arguments that a 15-year-old teenage girl can't really consent, but whether this is the case or not, the Maldivian government (or court?) doesn't see it as rape but consensual sex and have decided to punish the girl because of that (NOT because she was raped by her stepfather).

Also, this seems to have been overlooked by every member who's posted in this thread:

The Maldivian government has reportedly urged the court to show leniency describing the girl as having been 'traumatised' by the rape.

Whatever you interpret that as, the sentence is there regardless.



uwmonkdm
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24 Mar 2013, 9:01 pm

I never even said I was talking about the Steubenville trial.

This was my only point:

In general, the things people worry about in the West are just ridiculous. Gay rights? You have your rights, the only thing you don't have is a piece of paper from the government establishing that you are a couple.
What happens to gays in the East? They're put to death.
Moronic.



Sylkat
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24 Mar 2013, 9:03 pm

My post was a reply and commentary on uwmonkdm' first post here.

There is a LOT of information on the Steubenville mess that has been swept under the proverbial carpet.

She was set-up.

This was planned.

The information is available if one wants to Google it.

The teen-ager, Cody Saltsman (Saltzman?) who set it up, denied it, and his parents hired a lawyer who sued the blogger who exposed it.

The lawsuit was dropped within twenty-four hours.

The Maldivan girl lives in a Hell on earth, but why compare two victims?

They a are both victims, don't they both deserve compassion?

Sylkat



uwmonkdm
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24 Mar 2013, 9:14 pm

Sylkat wrote:
My post was a reply and commentary on uwmonkdm' first post here.

There is a LOT of information on the Steubenville mess that has been swept under the proverbial carpet.

She was set-up.

This was planned.

The information is available if one wants to Google it.

The teen-ager, Cody Saltsman (Saltzman?) who set it up, denied it, and his parents hired a lawyer who sued the blogger who exposed it.

The lawsuit was dropped within twenty-four hours.

The Maldivan girl lives in a Hell on earth, but why compare two victims?

They a are both victims, don't they both deserve compassion?

Sylkat


You're only further proving my point that you saps suck up American media stories like they're from the tits of the gods.
I wasn't even talking about Steubenville, no one was... and it's pretty damn irrelevant. Teenagers shouldn't party so much, and be so highly sexualized; then maybe this kind of s**t wouldn't happen so much.

Regardless, people in power promoting punishment of young girls for having sex is worse, isn't it?

Am I the only one who sees these two scenarios as two sides of the same coin? One society overcharges the kids with sexuality, sexual images, sexual role models... and the other completely shuts out sexuality and demands that you never speak of it until married.

Both are f****d up, and I'm really quite sick of hearing about it. s**t parents = s**t kids = s**t parents = s**t kids, the cycle goes on.



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25 Mar 2013, 12:33 am

^ to put it very nicely, you are using very faulty argumentation there.

Saying that something is not wrong because there is something worse happening somewhere else doesn't make the original thing right.

The fact that there is utterly horrific stuff like this and worse, in some parts of the world, does not make the Steubenville case, or whichever other case you were talking about (actually, pray tell us what case were you referring to) any less awful.

The fact that gay people are persecuted somewhere else does not mean they should stop fighting for their rights and be content.

I admit this is me putting words in your mouth, but if this was another time, I can perfectly picture you saying "dumb women who want to be able to vote, when in x country they can't even leave the house"

Assuming this was society's fault, which is actually not a far-fetched idea, would it be the child's fault, or society's? You could really use some empathy.


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uwmonkdm
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25 Mar 2013, 1:03 am

Shatbat wrote:
^ to put it very nicely, you are using very faulty argumentation there.

Saying that something is not wrong because there is something worse happening somewhere else doesn't make the original thing right.

The fact that there is utterly horrific stuff like this and worse, in some parts of the world, does not make the Steubenville case, or whichever other case you were talking about (actually, pray tell us what case were you referring to) any less awful.

The fact that gay people are persecuted somewhere else does not mean they should stop fighting for their rights and be content.

I admit this is me putting words in your mouth, but if this was another time, I can perfectly picture you saying "dumb women who want to be able to vote, when in x country they can't even leave the house"

Assuming this was society's fault, which is actually not a far-fetched idea, would it be the child's fault, or society's? You could really use some empathy.


Quote:
Both are f**** up, and I'm really quite sick of hearing about it.


Learn to read.



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25 Mar 2013, 1:19 am

Lol. To be fair, it is hard to make sense out of you. Weren't you just saying that worrying about the cases in the West was "moronic" Learn to be consistent.

Or If you believe both are bad, well then, what are you complaining about, excessive coverage of western cases in western media? Media is powerful, and in cases like Steubenville that power is used for good, I doubt charges would have been pressed if it hadn't been so publicized. But really, what's your problem?


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uwmonkdm
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25 Mar 2013, 1:31 am

Shatbat wrote:
Lol. To be fair, it is hard to make sense out of you. Weren't you just saying that worrying about the cases in the West was "moronic" Learn to be consistent.

Or If you believe both are bad, well then, what are you complaining about, excessive coverage of western cases in western media? Media is powerful, and in cases like Steubenville that power is used for good, I doubt charges would have been pressed if it hadn't been so publicized. But really, what's your problem?


I said it's moronic to fight so vigilantly for a piece of paper that is simply an acknowledgement by the government that you are "together". Wasn't the purpose of the gay rights movement simply acceptance of their lifestyle by the general public and being more comfortable with being in gay relationships when in public? Why does that require a piece of paper?
Compared to the 'gay rights' issues being faced by those put to death, that's moronic.
Are they going to expect the Christian church to marry them next? How about putting that energy into stopping the executions of gays around the world?

I didn't complain that the media is covering it, I simply find it annoying how people get so worked up over these things.
Quote:
you saps suck up American media stories like they're from the tits of the gods.


How many teenage girls do you think got raped today, this week? What makes this case so special?

I don't think I'm being inconsistent, you're just not getting it.
People sit around complaining about how horrible these things are, and never actually try to figure out what the real problem is.

Quote:
Media is powerful

Media is a bunch of BS to make money and corrupt youth.



Shatbat
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25 Mar 2013, 1:53 am

Some gay couples care about the tax breaks, inheritance and adoption provisions, right to each other's pension or to tive consent for certain things and a ehole lot of advantages that official marriage brings to the table. Other less pragmatic ones care about being officially married with their loved one, and that's ok too. Nobody should expect the Catholic church to marry gay people, they can be old-fashioned like that, to say the least, but the government is supposed to give equal rights to everyone, and marriage is one of such rights.

Stopping hate crimes against gay people somewhere else is a lofty goal, but I highly doubt gay-people killers in country y would care about what a bunch of gay people in country x have to say about it. And again, the fact that this second case is wrong doesn't make denying same-sex marriage right.

The cases that are covered by the media and the cases that aren't, yes, that can be arbitrary at times. I've heard about the complain of how peole only care about white american women disappearing, and how that affects the media coverage of such cases, and I don't approve of that either. Then again, that would he the media's fault, instead of the one they decided to talk about. You don't come acoss as dismissing the media, but as dismissing the rape victim suffering, which is very insensitive.

Also, something capable of making money and corrupting the youth is powerful, isn't it? I never specified that power was used for good, and discussing whether that power is mostly used for good or for bad would derail this topic more than it already is, but either eay, it has powe, and in that specific case it helped bring the perpetrators to justice.


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Sylkat
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25 Mar 2013, 3:23 pm

I read a post comparing the abuse and humiliation of two rape victims.

One is obviously much worse than the other, which I assumed to be the Steubanville case, a victim of a set-up, probable drugging, all night long of repeated assaults including public ridicule, pictures, video, sodomy, being urinated on, and a twelve minute amusing commentary by the comedy genius of Michael Nodianos, who appeared to be watching what was being done to her and commenting as it happened.

Watch the video.

There is no comparison to the misery, the hellish life that the young girl in Maldives lives every day.

But because she suffers more, why no compassion for the American girl?

Why contempt for her?

Did the 15-year old girl gang-raped, beaten, and kicked unconscious for two hours after the Richmond High School prom deserve that because she walked over to a friend and drank with him and his friends?

She was photographed and videotaped, too, and approximately twenty people watched and police say they laughed, too.

Why does only the suffering of the Maldivan girl matter?

I do not understand.

Shatbat brought up a good comparison, abuse of gays.

The teenager deliberately burned to death in Britain, and his dead body labelled with homophobic epithets obviously suffered physically and emotionally than most gay/lesbians ever will, but does that mean that verbal and physical abuse and discrimination that they do experience does not count?

I do not understand comparing any victim's suffering to any others.

Sylkat



Last edited by Sylkat on 25 Mar 2013, 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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25 Mar 2013, 3:45 pm

uwmonkdm wrote:
I never even said I was talking about the Steubenville trial.

This was my only point:

In general, the things people worry about in the West are just ridiculous. Gay rights? You have your rights, the only thing you don't have is a piece of paper from the government establishing that you are a couple.
What happens to gays in the East? They're put to death.
Moronic.


it's not just a 'piece of paper'.
The star plaintiff in that case (now before the Supreme Court) is Edie Windsor, 83, who was obliged to pay more than $600,000 in federal estate taxes upon the 2009 death of her longtime partner Clara Spyer, who she had married in Canada in 2007.
Under DOMA, the surviving member of a heterosexual married couple is exempt from such taxes.


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