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Kraichgauer
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29 Mar 2013, 5:59 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Abolish the sex offender registry.


But what happens then, when you have a repeat offender who doesn't want to have his problem fixed? And it should be remembered, most child murderers are also sex offenders.
I think if a sex offender has undergone therapy to rid him of his predilections, and can keep from offending again, his name should be removed from the sex offender registry after a certain number of years. But there are some offenders who will always be a danger.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



xenon13
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29 Mar 2013, 11:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
Abolish the sex offender registry.


But what happens then, when you have a repeat offender who doesn't want to have his problem fixed? And it should be remembered, most child murderers are also sex offenders.
I think if a sex offender has undergone therapy to rid him of his predilections, and can keep from offending again, his name should be removed from the sex offender registry after a certain number of years. But there are some offenders who will always be a danger.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I have never heard of a sex offender registry here in my country and certainly not in my province and we survive.

Well, I took a look and they introduced one in the mid-00s. How did we survive until then? Right wing kookery never ceases.



Kraichgauer
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29 Mar 2013, 11:46 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
Abolish the sex offender registry.


But what happens then, when you have a repeat offender who doesn't want to have his problem fixed? And it should be remembered, most child murderers are also sex offenders.
I think if a sex offender has undergone therapy to rid him of his predilections, and can keep from offending again, his name should be removed from the sex offender registry after a certain number of years. But there are some offenders who will always be a danger.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I have never heard of a sex offender registry here in my country and certainly not in my province and we survive.

Well, I took a look and they introduced one in the mid-00s. How did we survive until then? Right wing kookery never ceases.


You, my friend, are one of the few people ever to accuse me of being "right wing" anything.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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30 Mar 2013, 12:19 am

It is most likely because people don't believe in necessary and proper punishment. Often if you are a sex offender you can feel no remorse and relapse. Most people do not understand this. This is why a music pirate goes to jail longer than a sex offender.



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30 Mar 2013, 12:26 am

I agree with visagrunt. There are more important parts of the problem to address before ending up with life sentences and a sex offenders registry. It's a simple solution, very typical for the US, and it is not humanistic, rational or constructive. I think some good sociology would be in place for your uniquely flawed criminal system. (Like your very high number of prisoners.)



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30 Mar 2013, 12:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
You, my friend, are one of the few people ever to accuse me of being "right wing" anything.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Let me put it this way; you're Rush Limbaugh compared to him. Although I've got to give him, on law and order topics you actually are pretty right wing.


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Kraichgauer
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30 Mar 2013, 12:55 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
You, my friend, are one of the few people ever to accuse me of being "right wing" anything.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Let me put it this way; you're Rush Limbaugh compared to him. Although I've got to give him, on law and order topics you actually are pretty right wing.


Just makes me more interesting.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



jekenai
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30 Mar 2013, 6:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

But what happens then, when you have a repeat offender who doesn't want to have his problem fixed? And it should be remembered, most child murderers are also sex offenders.
I think if a sex offender has undergone therapy to rid him of his predilections, and can keep from offending again, his name should be removed from the sex offender registry after a certain number of years. But there are some offenders who will always be a danger.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Actually the murders of children by sexual offenders are rare. Murders from other reasons are more common - for example as the way to hurt the ex-partner.



xenon13
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30 Mar 2013, 11:29 am

We spent decades without a sex offender registry here in this country... and we survived. We don't have a provincial registry in Quebec because John James' government was sensible enough to say that this promoted vigilantism. The ADQ however insisted we get one. Ontario was the first province to get one in 2001 under Mike "e. coli" Harris, right wing crazy, and the right wing crazies under Stephen Harper set up the federal registry. This is what I mean by right wing kookery; they're waiting and as soon as they have a chance, they put these US so-called solutions into play. Right now thanks to Harper we behold the Mandatory Minimum Chart, sacred document replacing human judges, another US right wing crazy idea. It never ends. We should abolish the English language if necessary to protect ourselves from the psychopaths from down south and their insane combination of Puritanism, vigilantism and pro-slavery culture.



cubedemon6073
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30 Mar 2013, 12:10 pm

visagrunt wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Well there are murderers who are given life sentences. Why isn't the same logic applied?


Let's turn that logic around.

People who commit sexual offenses aren't given life sentences. Why isn't the same logic applied to murderers?

Why have we uncritically accepted that the necessary punishment for murder is life imprisonment? Is there any rational connection between the crime and the purposes for which criminal law exists? Could those purposes be achieved with a lesser sentence? If not in all cases, then in some?

Many people here seem to treat the warehousing of criminals in prisons as a result in criminal law. But I would argue that imprisonment should not be not the end result of the criminal justice system. The end result of the criminal justice system should be, in my view, mitigating the impact of crime. The effectiveness of our justice systems should not be measured based on the number of people that we have locked up and for how long, but rather on its impact upon crime rates in our communities, its impact on recidivism and its impact on the reintegration of offenders into society.

Life imprisonment is a facile response. It lacks critical thought and it lacks any type of policy based approach to criminal justice. It does little to nothing to prevent crime, and creates only the illusion of security, rather than any genuine improvement in the safety of people.

Meanwhile, the sex offender registry seems to be predicated on a couple of notions:

1) That all sex offenders are made alike.
2) That no sex offender is capable of rehabilitation, or repudiation of the propensity towards sexual offenses.
3) That the existence of the sex offender registry creates security for communities.

None of these are generally accurate, let alone truthful.

1) When the teenager with a nude picture of another teenager on his cell phone is convicted of possession of child pornography, and placed in the same registry as a person who has committed a series of sexual assaults on multiple victims, the registry becomes ridiculous.

2) There are plenty of sexual offenders who have only learned meaningful lessons about consent when their conduct has led to charges. When movies and television tell young men that "No means maybe," and there has been no sex education in schools to tell them differently, then it may not be until they are on the receiving end of a criminal record that they learn that lesson. And it may be a lesson that they will never forget. To treat such a person in exactly the same way as the compulsive paedophile is uncritical.

3) This is the biggest lie of all. All sex offenders who are out of prison are in some community, somewhere. Drumming a paroled sex offender out of town simply transfers that person to another community--and incentivizes that person to lie, and attempt to hide. But while your community is drumming out one sex offender, another community is sending theirs on to you.

There are circumstances in which offenders must be put on strict conditions upon their release from prison. Prohibitions against working or volunteering with children and young people and exclusions around schools, these are purposive, targeted and they make sense. But the registry? That seems a very blunt instrument.


I was using irony to make a point to show to inconsistency to certain right wing beliefs.



naturalplastic
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30 Mar 2013, 1:49 pm

All I know about the subject is what Nancy Grace tells me.

Everytime a little girl or boy disappears in the nation- Nancy Grace will always inform us that "nineteen thousand four hundred and eighty six registered sex offenders live with five square miles of the missing child's house."

If you wanna replace the registery with either the death penalty, or lifetime imprisonment, it would amount to genocide of the nation!

Also- arent many of the people on the registery guys who got busted when they were nineteen for sleeping with thier 17 year old fiances? Not all of them are non normal types. Sexual offense would be a sliding scale I would think. Just how easy/hard is it to get on the registry?



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30 Mar 2013, 2:47 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Also- arent many of the people on the registery guys who got busted when they were nineteen for sleeping with thier 17 year old fiances? Not all of them are non normal types. Sexual offense would be a sliding scale I would think. Just how easy/hard is it to get on the registry?

Fairly easy, apparently.

Recall the case of William Elliott, killed in Maine by a vigilante at the age of 24 who got Elliott's identity from a public sex offender registry. Elliott was convicted at the age of 20 and served 4 months for having sex with his girlfriend who was less than a month away from the age of consent at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Ma ... urderer%29
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=18557 ... Vc_ilfxPs4

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Drehmaschine
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30 Mar 2013, 3:01 pm

jekenai wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

But what happens then, when you have a repeat offender who doesn't want to have his problem fixed? And it should be remembered, most child murderers are also sex offenders.
I think if a sex offender has undergone therapy to rid him of his predilections, and can keep from offending again, his name should be removed from the sex offender registry after a certain number of years. But there are some offenders who will always be a danger.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Actually the murders of children by sexual offenders are rare. Murders from other reasons are more common - for example as the way to hurt the ex-partner.

I can only remember Haarmann, Bartsch, Kürten, Gacy, Chikatilo, Dodd, and Dahmer. I know more, but forget their names.



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30 Mar 2013, 3:46 pm

I think the idea behind a sex offender registry is that they are only dangerous in certain situations. A child molester isn't likely to rob a store or murder someone, but they should always be considered dangerous if you ask them to babysit. So the thinking is that they are okay to release into society, but it's not okay to let their crimes be forgotten.

Now, in practice I would say they don't work, because you've got everybody from rapists and pedophiles to statutory rapists and 17-year-old sexters on the same list. For some crimes it's too harsh a punishment and for other crimes it's not enough. The problem with ideas like this is that no one ever loses an election for being too hard on crime, so there's no incentive for anyone to be reasonable. Criminals can't vote, after all.



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30 Mar 2013, 3:46 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
All I know about the subject is what Nancy Grace tells me.

Everytime a little girl or boy disappears in the nation- Nancy Grace will always inform us that "nineteen thousand four hundred and eighty six registered sex offenders live with five square miles of the missing child's house."

If you wanna replace the registery with either the death penalty, or lifetime imprisonment, it would amount to genocide of the nation!

Also- arent many of the people on the registery guys who got busted when they were nineteen for sleeping with thier 17 year old fiances? Not all of them are non normal types. Sexual offense would be a sliding scale I would think. Just how easy/hard is it to get on the registry?


Who is Nancy Grace and how do you figure that she is reliable?