It's confirmed: I must get undiagnosed: how?

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Tyri0n
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04 Apr 2013, 11:44 am

I wonder if there is anyone here who has been diagnosed with Asperger's but later found out it was a misdiagnosis--and they actually had something else.

I had a long conversation with an ex who basically convinced me that I meet the criteria for a personality disorder. Actually, it made perfect sense once she explained it to me, and I was only dimly aware of some of the behaviors. I had suspected it before but then dismissed it. Now, I realize I was correct. Even my autistic behaviors in childhood now make sense as a response to a traumatic incident. Forget PDD.

Unfortunately, my psychologist is of the opinion that, once someone has ASD, then personality disorder diagnoses aren't really relevant since every interpersonal problem can be explained in terms of ASD --- lol! My concerns were just dismissed. It's hard to get anyone to believe me who doesn't know me. But those close to me, including two of my exes and, this morning, my mother, all agree with me. I just don't fit the "type" that professionals are looking for, partly due to conscious masking and partly due to unconscious masking due to NLD.

I have decided that I may not even have a co-morbid but that Asperger's itself may well be an incorrect diagnosis. I have NLD, sure; that could explain some outward behaviors like prosody issues, etc. However, one of the reasons I've been obsessed with Asperger's and this site is because of pervasive doubting my autism diagnosis.

Why does it matter? I can't get the help I need with an AS diagnosis. I've tried, which leads me to be told that, if I have it at all, it's very mild. None of the so-called "social skills training" addresses my specific issues. But I definitely have something that isn't mild. Since many of you would probably love to be rid of me, the fake aspie who keys cars and gives bad advice in the Love & Dating section, what should I do to get re-diagnosed, so I can actually address my real issues and quit wasting so much time on this website? :lol:



Last edited by Tyri0n on 04 Apr 2013, 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

nessa238
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04 Apr 2013, 11:56 am

Help for people with Personality Disorders is even rarer than that for people with ASDs

You need to be harming yourself or others in order to get it usually (in the UK) - then you can get into the specialist units they run

All the intensive therapy is invariably just for the people who are a danger to themselves or others and/or criminals, with criminals being the favourite subjects of most therapists and researchers

So keep keying the cars, key a few people as well and you could get all the help you need!

(and no I'm not joking)



jk1
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04 Apr 2013, 12:15 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Since many of you would probably love to be rid of me, the fake aspie who keys cars and gives bad advice in the Love & Dating section, what should I do to get re-diagnosed, so I can actually address my real issues and quit wasting so much time on this website? :lol:


I actually think it's good to have many different kinds of people here on WP, including non-autistic people. So whatever condition you have/don't have, I see your presence here rather positively, particularly because your posts always seem honest. Probably that was not your main point in your post, but I just wanted to point that out.



xMistrox
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04 Apr 2013, 1:00 pm

Amid all the anti-self diagnose threads, it is interesting to see somewhat of the opposite (personally, I just see those as the human trait of "guilty until proven innocent"). From Wikipedia (bad source, I know), there are 10 personality disorders that sound similar to some ASD symptoms/issues on the surface, but are quite different in detail:

Wikipedia wrote:
Cluster A (odd or eccentric disorders and fears Social relation)

-Paranoid personality disorder: characterized by irrational suspicions and mistrust of others.
-Schizoid personality disorder: lack of interest in social relationships, seeing no point in sharing time with others, anhedonia, introspection.
-Schizotypal personality disorder: characterized by odd behavior or thinking.

Cluster B (dramatic, emotional or erratic disorders)

-Antisocial personality disorder: a pervasive disregard for the rights of others, lack of empathy, and (generally) a pattern of regular criminal activity.
-Borderline personality disorder: extreme "black and white" thinking, instability in relationships, self-image, identity and behavior often leading to self-harm and impulsivity.
-Histrionic personality disorder: pervasive attention-seeking behavior including inappropriately seductive behavior and shallow or exaggerated emotions.
-Narcissistic personality disorder: a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy. Characterized by self-importance, preoccupations with fantasies, belief that they are special, including a sense of entitlement and a need for excessive admiration, and extreme levels of jealousy and arrogance.

Cluster C (anxious or fearful disorders)
-Avoidant personality disorder: pervasive feelings of social inhibition and social inadequacy, extreme sensitivity to negative evaluation and avoidance of social interaction.
-Dependent personality disorder: pervasive psychological dependence on other people.
-Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (not the same as obsessive-compulsive disorder): characterized by rigid conformity to rules, moral codes and excessive orderliness.

Appendix B: Criteria Sets and Axes Provided for Further Study
Appendix B contains the following disorders:

-Depressive personality disorder – is a pervasive pattern of depressive cognitions and behaviors beginning by early adulthood.
-Passive-aggressive (negativistic) personality disorder – is a pattern of negative attitudes and passive resistance in interpersonal situations.


I'd suggest reading them in depth to see if you agree with any of them or not. If I were to just pick a few for myself based on the basic descriptions, it'd be Schizotypal, Borderline, Avoidant, and Obsessive Compulsive Personality. However, in depth descriptions do not fit with an AS diagnosis or how I feel personally (such as magical thinking, self-only views of social ineptness, etc.). Some also exclude AS specifically such as Schizotypal. This is just a first perspective look as I've not researched these in depth aside from Schizophrenia/Schizotypal. Not to be compared with the OCPD above, but OCD also has connotations of wanting to stop compulsions, but not being able to. Personally I don't want to stop my compulsions much of the time and do not like to be interrupted.


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GiantHockeyFan
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04 Apr 2013, 1:04 pm

nessa238 wrote:
So keep keying the cars, key a few people as well and you could get all the help you need!
(and no I'm not joking)

As crazy as it sounds, I would have to agree with this statement. I was told flat out (before I knew I had Aspergers and could not find a job to save my life) that I was too 'intelligent' for help since I had a university degree but if I had a criminal record, there were NUMEROUS programs that could help me. Granted a criminal record would still be a bad thing but what a messed up world we live in.

Same as how my medical claim was rejected because its "cosmetic" but the procedure I had done would save thousands later in life (because what I had never gets better only worse) and that would be covered. Does no one think proactively?



Last edited by GiantHockeyFan on 04 Apr 2013, 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Tyri0n
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04 Apr 2013, 1:07 pm

xMistrox wrote:
Amid all the anti-self diagnose threads, it is interesting to see somewhat of the opposite (personally, I just see those as the human trait of "guilty until proven innocent"). From Wikipedia (bad source, I know), there are 10 personality disorders that sound similar to some ASD symptoms/issues on the surface, but are quite different in detail:

Wikipedia wrote:
Cluster A (odd or eccentric disorders and fears Social relation)

-Paranoid personality disorder: characterized by irrational suspicions and mistrust of others.
-Schizoid personality disorder: lack of interest in social relationships, seeing no point in sharing time with others, anhedonia, introspection.
-Schizotypal personality disorder: characterized by odd behavior or thinking.

Cluster B (dramatic, emotional or erratic disorders)

-Antisocial personality disorder: a pervasive disregard for the rights of others, lack of empathy, and (generally) a pattern of regular criminal activity.
-Borderline personality disorder: extreme "black and white" thinking, instability in relationships, self-image, identity and behavior often leading to self-harm and impulsivity.
-Histrionic personality disorder: pervasive attention-seeking behavior including inappropriately seductive behavior and shallow or exaggerated emotions.
-Narcissistic personality disorder: a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy. Characterized by self-importance, preoccupations with fantasies, belief that they are special, including a sense of entitlement and a need for excessive admiration, and extreme levels of jealousy and arrogance.

Cluster C (anxious or fearful disorders)
-Avoidant personality disorder: pervasive feelings of social inhibition and social inadequacy, extreme sensitivity to negative evaluation and avoidance of social interaction.
-Dependent personality disorder: pervasive psychological dependence on other people.
-Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (not the same as obsessive-compulsive disorder): characterized by rigid conformity to rules, moral codes and excessive orderliness.

Appendix B: Criteria Sets and Axes Provided for Further Study
Appendix B contains the following disorders:

-Depressive personality disorder – is a pervasive pattern of depressive cognitions and behaviors beginning by early adulthood.
-Passive-aggressive (negativistic) personality disorder – is a pattern of negative attitudes and passive resistance in interpersonal situations.


I'd suggest reading them in depth to see if you agree with any of them or not. If I were to just pick a few for myself based on the basic descriptions, it'd be Schizotypal, Borderline, Avoidant, and Obsessive Compulsive Personality. However, in depth descriptions do not fit with an AS diagnosis or how I feel personally (such as magical thinking, self-only views of social ineptness, etc.). Some also exclude AS specifically such as Schizotypal. This is just a first perspective look as I've not researched these in depth aside from Schizophrenia/Schizotypal. Not to be compared with the OCPD above, but OCD also has connotations of wanting to stop compulsions, but not being able to. Personally I don't want to stop my compulsions much of the time and do not like to be interrupted.


Borderline and perhaps OCD but probably just Borderline. The things my ex girlfriend and mother wrote up basically have me meeting 7/9 criteria for BPD: 5 quite strongly, and only 5 are necessary.

The challenge in getting diagnosed is I come across as either a (1) morose lethargic person or (2) a sunny, happy, optimistic person with a great sense of humor. I just don't come across as the typical borderline. But those who know me would disagree strongly. It's just that I can't bring them into the doctor's office, so it's hard to be believable. What if someone walked into your office, smiled, shook hands, and made eye contact and answered all questions in measured, professional phrases with a slow cadence. No, I would not suspect BPD either.

I also have a habit of putting on good behavior whenever I see a professional of any sort. This is one way I manage to stay gainfully employed.



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04 Apr 2013, 1:59 pm

When I read the list of diagnostic criteria for NLD virtually all of the things listed are a subset of ASD diagnostic criteria and I wondered if NLD is simply a name for those with ASD that present those particular traits stronger than others do.

I don't recall reading about the vocal prosody issue with NLD - any reference links to this? I ask as I was going to point out that you yourself have acknowledge "the voice," & that it's (afaik) very uniquely ASD.

Have you read this book yet? If you haven't, I highly recommend that you do. Tony Attwood manages to describe things very, VERY, well. When you read this, you'll just know whether you do these things or not and thus whether you have ASD or not. There's not only a long list of outwardly recognizable traits, but also very accurate descriptions of inner thought processes and mental processes that Aspies use as coping mechanisms. I didn't realize I did these things & why until I read about them and realized while reading this book. Give it a read, it may well help you confirm or deny a diagnosis either way.

edit: If you're a pdf ebook reader, I've found this book online if you'd like a link.


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Tyri0n
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04 Apr 2013, 5:56 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
When I read the list of diagnostic criteria for NLD virtually all of the things listed are a subset of ASD diagnostic criteria and I wondered if NLD is simply a name for those with ASD that present those particular traits stronger than others do.

I don't recall reading about the vocal prosody issue with NLD - any reference links to this? I ask as I was going to point out that you yourself have acknowledge "the voice," & that it's (afaik) very uniquely ASD.

Have you read this book yet? If you haven't, I highly recommend that you do. Tony Attwood manages to describe things very, VERY, well. When you read this, you'll just know whether you do these things or not and thus whether you have ASD or not. There's not only a long list of outwardly recognizable traits, but also very accurate descriptions of inner thought processes and mental processes that Aspies use as coping mechanisms. I didn't realize I did these things & why until I read about them and realized while reading this book. Give it a read, it may well help you confirm or deny a diagnosis either way.

edit: If you're a pdf ebook reader, I've found this book online if you'd like a link.


Gotta love torrent sites, eh? Yes, I have read it. The external behaviors sometimes match. The internal thought processes are hit or miss. I'd say about 60% of the checklist is accurate overall.

So I have (not from the checklist):

Prosody issues (moderate)
Relationship issues (severe)
Stereotypes movements and rituals (none)
Intense interests (moderate-severe)
motor issues (moderate)
Surface social skills / small talk (average -- within normal NT range but not exceptional)
Reading body language/theory of mind (within normal NT range with instances of exceptional --for NT's--ability and other instances abysmal failure)


NLD and prosody issues:

http://cie.asu.edu/volume1/number7/

Borderline and social issues:

Quote:
Is there some common points between asperger and bpd
yes. it is possible to find in both of them, impairment in social interactions, repetitive behavior patterns, failure to develop friendships, and a limited number of intense and highly focused interests, normal or even superior inteligence, etc...


http://www.aapel.org/asp/AGaspergerornotUS.html



daydreamer84
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04 Apr 2013, 6:23 pm

What kind of help do you want/need exactly?



Tyri0n
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04 Apr 2013, 6:30 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:
What kind of help do you want/need exactly?


Something to help with:

1. unstable sense of self / confused identity

2. feeling like a hollow person

3. eliminate constantly shifting personality

4. learning to have consistent perceptions of people and situations and consistent rules and values

5. how a healthy/non-exploitative friendship or relationship is supposed to work (I have no idea)

6. how to eliminate constant negative subtext and poor self-esteem that causes me to hate myself and everyone within glaring distance

7. eliminate always worrying about the worst and obsessing over it.

8. Stupid depression / suicidal impulses

Basically, CBT, or DBT, in particular. In my country, anything is inexpensive if you can get covered by insurance. That's why correct diagnoses are important .

The identity confusion issues are huge and a cause of many other problems.



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04 Apr 2013, 6:37 pm

Have you looked up dialectical behavioral therapy?

Also, you can bring relatives to appointments with you if you feel their input would be valuable. It seems strange that your psych doesn't want to hear it.



daydreamer84
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04 Apr 2013, 6:44 pm

^^^
Yeah, maybe you should bring a relative to confirm what you said.



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04 Apr 2013, 6:44 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
So keep keying the cars, key a few people as well and you could get all the help you need!
(and no I'm not joking)

As crazy as it sounds, I would have to agree with this statement. I was told flat out (before I knew I had Aspergers and could not find a job to save my life) that I was too 'intelligent' for help since I had a university degree but if I had a criminal record, there were NUMEROUS programs that could help me. Granted a criminal record would still be a bad thing but what a messed up world we live in.

Same as how my medical claim was rejected because its "cosmetic" but the procedure I had done would save thousands later in life (because what I had never gets better only worse) and that would be covered. Does no one think proactively?


Reminds me of the time I was about to be homeless and rang the council housing department in tears and panic, only to be asked "are you pregnant" and when I said no, they said "well you're not pregnant and you are articulate enough, we can't help you"! !

No wonder you get all these chavs (common, lazy people who are in good health but live on benefits) getting pregnant just to get housing.


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daydreamer84
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04 Apr 2013, 6:45 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
daydreamer84 wrote:
What kind of help do you want/need exactly?


Something to help with:

1. unstable sense of self / confused identity

2. feeling like a hollow person

3. eliminate constantly shifting personality

4. learning to have consistent perceptions of people and situations and consistent rules and values

5. how a healthy/non-exploitative friendship or relationship is supposed to work (I have no idea)

6. how to eliminate constant negative subtext and poor self-esteem that causes me to hate myself and everyone within glaring distance

7. eliminate always worrying about the worst and obsessing over it.

8. Stupid depression / suicidal impulses

Basically, CBT, or DBT, in particular. In my country, anything is inexpensive if you can get covered by insurance. That's why correct diagnoses are important .

The identity confusion issues are huge and a cause of many other problems.


Maybe you should show a list like this to the psych and explain why you need the diagnosis in parctical terms.



nessa238
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04 Apr 2013, 7:08 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
daydreamer84 wrote:
What kind of help do you want/need exactly?


Something to help with:

1. unstable sense of self / confused identity

2. feeling like a hollow person

3. eliminate constantly shifting personality

4. learning to have consistent perceptions of people and situations and consistent rules and values

5. how a healthy/non-exploitative friendship or relationship is supposed to work (I have no idea)

6. how to eliminate constant negative subtext and poor self-esteem that causes me to hate myself and everyone within glaring distance

7. eliminate always worrying about the worst and obsessing over it.

8. Stupid depression / suicidal impulses

Basically, CBT, or DBT, in particular. In my country, anything is inexpensive if you can get covered by insurance. That's why correct diagnoses are important .

The identity confusion issues are huge and a cause of many other problems.


Maybe you should show a list like this to the psych and explain why you need the diagnosis in parctical terms.


Anti-depressants can deal with a lot of these or lessen them considerably

they do for me



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04 Apr 2013, 7:22 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
I had a long conversation with an ex


I found your problem.