Page 3 of 3 [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3


Do you experience this "living in own world"-tendency of autism?
Always. 9%  9%  [ 7 ]
Almost always. 43%  43%  [ 32 ]
Often. 17%  17%  [ 13 ]
Sometimes. 21%  21%  [ 16 ]
Rarely. 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
Almost never. 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
Never. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 75

qawer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,252

09 Apr 2013, 4:32 am

Skilpadde wrote:
Qawer, I don’t really get that “My life is a part of the world” vs “The world is a part of my life”. I would think it was opposite, that Nts would say the former, being out there and in the world and all that, while we would go for the “the world is a part of my life” option because the world is part of our lives, but no more than a small part since the majority of life for us is our minds. That makes more sense to me.


What I mean to say is that AS people seem to have a tendency to not put their own lives in center, as the most important thing they have. They tend to forget themselves. In that sense for AS people the world comes before their own lives, i.e. their special interests may be "too" important to them compared to how important their survival is to them. Or: The world is what really matters, my life is simply a (not that extremely important) part of the world.

So it is in the sense that their interest is about the world (i.e. special interests) instead of themselves.

On the other hand NT people see their own lives as the first, most important thing. The world is there to provide happiness to their lives, so the world is a part of their lives. If something is important to their lives, then it is important. In that sense, their lives come before the world, or: the world is a part of my life.


But really, I agree with what you are saying. It's just different interpretations.


Skilpadde wrote:
Also, “viewing the world through your own life”… how else could you possibly view it? Everyone is the center of their own life, and can only view it from a subjective POV. The only perspective you know, is yours.


You are right, the only perspective you know is your own.

What I'm trying to express with “viewing the world through your own life” is that you view the world in relation to your own life. AS people may have special interests that do not really concern their own lives in any way as to what regards their own survival (i.e. their actual lives). This is not viewing the world through your own life. On the other hand, NT people may find some fashion outlet interesting because they can actually go out and buy themselves something new to wear. This is viewing the world in relation to/through your own life.

When you view the world through your own life you can never really consider anything about the world without at the same time thinking what relation and how important it is to your own life.



Skilpadde
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,019

09 Apr 2013, 7:09 pm

Ah, now I get it. Thanks for elaborating, Qawer! We are in agreement.
I value my special interest and obsessions above the basics (or more to the point, above what needs to be done in order to cover the basics).


_________________
No respect for acting like a covidiot, for doing so is despicable.
Masks: 40% protection. 1 meter distance: 80% protection

<3 Turtles, wolves and dogs <3


qawer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,252

10 Apr 2013, 10:12 am

I think I get it now.

Objectively, human life is about survival and existence. That's settled.

In order for that to happen, people have to believe their lives are important, even though they mean nothing in the infinitely long history of the universe. We are simply an insignificant spot in time in the history of the universe - nothing more.

But we have to believe we are more important than that, otherwise we are not going to survive. So where does the motivation to survive come from? It comes from "believing that your life is everything there is" (i.e. "viewing the world subjetively" or "being present in the world"). Seen from your subjetive perspective, your life is all there is, because that is all you are ever going to experience! Objectively there is a lot more than your own life - your life is quite insignificant in the large scheme of the universe...simply another number in the human population on the tiny planet called Earth.

This leads to two poles as to how people can perceive themselves in the world:


The one pole (call it "East") is:

"Believing that your life is all there is" <=>

"Being present in the world -> 'being' in your body" <=>

Believing in your own/subjetive reality: the physical world your body is a part of is the true world (e.g. believing "life does have a purpose: to find a purpose with life"). The thoughts in your head are just thoughts in your head. <=>

You act in the world because you believe you own life is all there is: you act in self-interest (since all actions (perhaps "thinking" excepted) eventually are rooted in self-interest).




The other pole (call it "West") is:

"Believing that your life is simply an insignificant little spot in a tiny fraction of an infinitely long historiy of the universe." <=>

"Not being present in the world -> 'being' in your head" <=>

Believing in the objective reality: The scientific/cosmic true (not the false) thoughts in your head is the actual truth (e.g. believing "life has no purpose"). The physical world your body is a part of is not the actual true world because it is being distorted by your own self-interest in surviving (i.e. because you are living). It is not the actual true world because your outlook on it is affected by your own desire to survive <=>

You don't act in the physical world because your actions are insignificant in the very big scheme of things (and/or because it's not really the true world to you): instead your "actions" take place in your head (i.e. thinking) because you believe those thoughts to be the actual true world.



These are poles: there's of course a spectrum inbetween.

Autism is really about being too close to the West-pole: not being present enough, 'being' too much in the head, not being subjective enough. Asperger people may very well be very intelligent and very right in their observations of the world. The problem is being too objective ( = thinking "my life is quite insignificant"), and not being subjective enough ( = not thinking "my life is extremely important").



goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,253
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

22 Apr 2014, 11:58 pm

I don't think this was the exact qawer thread I was thinking of, but it's one that came up when I just did a search. I thought there was a much longer one discussing being present vs. not present.

I've been more & more present in the now in all areas of my life over the last several months of sticking to my dietary treatment plan. I have some friends who are into meditation and being present etc, so I've learned a few things from them, too. But much more recently I've been feeling even more present than ever, thanks to reading a couple of great books about the subject. I just came to post and recommend them here for anyone interested. I've found them both to be quite valuable, especially the second one. I think anyone could benefit from reading them, but especially those of us here who acknowledge having difficulty staying present.

Anyways, the books:

The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment by Eckhart Tolle - 230 some pages about being present & living life in the now - the only moment we ever really have. The book was good, but the next book was great.

Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Now-Spi ... wer+of+now

A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose by Eckhart Tolle - 300 or so pages that expand quite a bit on The Power of Now & delve into some very simple, yet eye opening, stuff about the way our minds work and are so often unconscious while being controlled by our ego and it's reactions to things. There's a lot of great stuff about collective consciousness and people awakening, becoming conscious and present - how it's the next evolutionary step of humanity.

Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/New-Earth-Awakeni ... +new+earth

After having read them I was reminded of the threads here discussing being present or not. I think there's a lot more to qawer's present/mindful vs. off in your own little world stuff than I originally gave him credit for. I highly recommend these books as they really clearly define being present and how to be present via various methods & techniques. These are truly life changing books, especially A New Earth. I hope some (or all!) of you here opt to pick these books up and give them a read. You'll be glad you did. 8)


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


wozeree
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,344

23 Apr 2014, 12:07 am

goldfish21 wrote:
I don't think this was the exact qawer thread I was thinking of, but it's one that came up when I just did a search. I thought there was a much longer one discussing being present vs. not present.

I've been more & more present in the now in all areas of my life over the last several months of sticking to my dietary treatment plan. I have some friends who are into meditation and being present etc, so I've learned a few things from them, too. But much more recently I've been feeling even more present than ever, thanks to reading a couple of great books about the subject. I just came to post and recommend them here for anyone interested. I've found them both to be quite valuable, especially the second one. I think anyone could benefit from reading them, but especially those of us here who acknowledge having difficulty staying present.

Anyways, the books:

The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment by Eckhart Tolle - 230 some pages about being present & living life in the now - the only moment we ever really have. The book was good, but the next book was great.

Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Now-Spi ... wer+of+now

A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose by Eckhart Tolle - 300 or so pages that expand quite a bit on The Power of Now & delve into some very simple, yet eye opening, stuff about the way our minds work and are so often unconscious while being controlled by our ego and it's reactions to things. There's a lot of great stuff about collective consciousness and people awakening, becoming conscious and present - how it's the next evolutionary step of humanity.

Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/New-Earth-Awakeni ... +new+earth

After having read them I was reminded of the threads here discussing being present or not. I think there's a lot more to qawer's present/mindful vs. off in your own little world stuff than I originally gave him credit for. I highly recommend these books as they really clearly define being present and how to be present via various methods & techniques. These are truly life changing books, especially A New Earth. I hope some (or all!) of you here opt to pick these books up and give them a read. You'll be glad you did. 8)


Did Ekhart Tolle pay you to come here and say that? :D

Only kidding man, how you been! Sounds like your treatment is going well, that's great.



wozeree
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,344

23 Apr 2014, 12:17 am

PS - what does living in the present even mean? I never understood that term. I mean, I guess I can see extreme cases where people live in the past. Did you ever read Great Expectations? Now that was living in the past! But as far as normal people go, are we supposed to always consciously be looking exactly at what's in front of us at all times? I think I'd be suicidal if I had to do that!

I'm curious about what you think about it. Maybe I have the whole idea wrong.

Edit - I just read the first part of the thread so I know what you mean now. Hmm, I kind of think the world needs some of us who are not exactly present all the time (although if I was able to turn it on and off better at work, I'd be more successful). However, I would say that a mind that can't travel is a mind that's wasted. :D



droppy
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 3 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 477

23 Apr 2014, 7:17 am

I sometimes feel like I am separated from the rest of the world by a glass. I can't hear what people say and I see them moving very slowly. It used to happen a lot more once but now it doesn't happen that much anymore.
When this happens I slow down as well: I think ever more slowly than I usually do and move slowly. This is the only way I can keep up and get back in the outside world. If I want to, of course.



alwaysnow
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 90

23 Apr 2014, 8:59 am

I live in my own world, but I also live very much in the present. My mom has even said that I seem to live more in the present than my very extroverted NT sister, because she always thinks about the future, making plans for things, being concerned about future events and so on. I on the other hand have a very limited ability both to live in the past (because my memory is rubbish except for specific facts and information), and also have great problems planning ahead and thinking about things in the future. The only things I am able to get concerned with is what I'm doing and feeling right now this moment, and thinking only about the very next immediate things I have to do. So to me the two are far from exclusive, but I guess it depends a bit on what you put into the terms.



goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,253
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

26 Apr 2014, 4:45 pm

wozeree wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I don't think this was the exact qawer thread I was thinking of, but it's one that came up when I just did a search. I thought there was a much longer one discussing being present vs. not present.

I've been more & more present in the now in all areas of my life over the last several months of sticking to my dietary treatment plan. I have some friends who are into meditation and being present etc, so I've learned a few things from them, too. But much more recently I've been feeling even more present than ever, thanks to reading a couple of great books about the subject. I just came to post and recommend them here for anyone interested. I've found them both to be quite valuable, especially the second one. I think anyone could benefit from reading them, but especially those of us here who acknowledge having difficulty staying present.

Anyways, the books:

The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment by Eckhart Tolle - 230 some pages about being present & living life in the now - the only moment we ever really have. The book was good, but the next book was great.

Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Now-Spi ... wer+of+now

A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose by Eckhart Tolle - 300 or so pages that expand quite a bit on The Power of Now & delve into some very simple, yet eye opening, stuff about the way our minds work and are so often unconscious while being controlled by our ego and it's reactions to things. There's a lot of great stuff about collective consciousness and people awakening, becoming conscious and present - how it's the next evolutionary step of humanity.

Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/New-Earth-Awakeni ... +new+earth

After having read them I was reminded of the threads here discussing being present or not. I think there's a lot more to qawer's present/mindful vs. off in your own little world stuff than I originally gave him credit for. I highly recommend these books as they really clearly define being present and how to be present via various methods & techniques. These are truly life changing books, especially A New Earth. I hope some (or all!) of you here opt to pick these books up and give them a read. You'll be glad you did. 8)


Did Ekhart Tolle pay you to come here and say that? :D

Only kidding man, how you been! Sounds like your treatment is going well, that's great.


Nope. I posted that of my own free will. I learned a lot reading those books and highly recommend them. There's a reason millions of copies have been sold mostly by word of mouth like this, but I'm sure being books recommended by Oprah's book club sold millions more, too.

Over all, I've been really good. Healthier, wealthier, stronger, wiser, moving forward in various areas of life and achieving new goals & highs all the time. Sure, I some negative situations to deal with, like everyone, but thanks to my diet/herbal/probiotic treatments (and hard work, exercise, learning etc) I'm better able to deal with them than ever.

As for reading/learning & book reco's, I haven't limited myself to just reading soft stuff. I'm currently reading the most hardcore badass book I've ever even heard of - you know, just to keep a balance of things. It does go a little hand in hand with qawer's black and white philosophies, too. It's very black and white about being a master or a slave, conquering or being conquered - all that sort of good stuff. It's the assertive/aggressive philosophies I'm reading it for, just to put more assertive/aggressive "programming," in my brain vs. being passive and not going after what I want in life/work etc. There's a lot of Aryan supremacy stuff in the book, but that's not what I'm reading it for. It is pretty badass, with an ultra violent brief summary of human history that's rather eye opening. It's called "Might is Right," by Ragnar Redbeard (1896) & was partially plagiarized by Anton LaVey when he wrote the satanic bible in 1969. Seriously hardcore stuff, but fascinating, and IMO (I'm half way through or so now) it's worth the read for the "warrior," inspiration & motivation for those of us who tend toward passiveness or cowardice vs. just going for whatever we want.


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,253
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

26 Apr 2014, 4:58 pm

wozeree wrote:
PS - what does living in the present even mean? I never understood that term. I mean, I guess I can see extreme cases where people live in the past. Did you ever read Great Expectations? Now that was living in the past! But as far as normal people go, are we supposed to always consciously be looking exactly at what's in front of us at all times? I think I'd be suicidal if I had to do that!

I'm curious about what you think about it. Maybe I have the whole idea wrong.

Edit - I just read the first part of the thread so I know what you mean now. Hmm, I kind of think the world needs some of us who are not exactly present all the time (although if I was able to turn it on and off better at work, I'd be more successful). However, I would say that a mind that can't travel is a mind that's wasted. :D


It means living in the moment, Now, the only moment that ever exists. Living with your thoughts, emotions, actions etc all in tune with the present moment. Not recalling the past, or thinking anxiously about the future, but simply Being fully present. It's an incredibly simple concept, but extremely difficult to achieve all of the time. To do so is to master yourself, your ego, and live your life productively and happily. That's my very simple take on it, but really Eckhart's two books are hundreds of pages for a reason - there's a lot more to be learned about it than that. They truly are valuable books and well worth reading.

Nope, I've never read "Great Expectations." Sounds like it's a fictional story. I've only ever read a handful of those in my life. I've read many books, but in true Aspie form, almost always for the purpose of learning something. I read business/finance/self help/new age stuff - things I want/need to learn, things that can grow, change, and improve me.

Sometimes being not fully present is valuable, ie thinking of a loved one for motivation to make it through a difficult situation, for example. Ie I spent last Fall/Winter working outside 7 days a week 10h a day in all weather conditions. I'd often start my morning thinking about my God daughter and how I could tough it out another day when she was my "why." Even though she doesn't need money or looking after, the thought process was that I WOULD work outside in freezing rain to provide for her if I had to, so putting myself in that mental state gave me the energy to do it when sometimes I'd rather have stayed inside in bed. I suppose that then kept me present, as I was then able to take it one day at a time, or even just a couple hours at a time, and stay focused on my work at hand because I had a Reason Why in my mind of why I Needed to do it. Annnnyways, yeah, sometimes there's value in not being fully present and recalling memories.. but for the most part, being fully present is far superior in virtually every way. If you can't be present consciously and default to slipping into unconscious thoughts of the past, future, or fantasy then you can't fully appreciate the power of being present in the here and now. But once you have better control over it you'll realize the value of being ever more present and that there's no reason to fear being too present, ever, as it's simply a superior way yo Be.


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,253
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

26 Apr 2014, 5:04 pm

alwaysnow wrote:
I live in my own world, but I also live very much in the present. My mom has even said that I seem to live more in the present than my very extroverted NT sister, because she always thinks about the future, making plans for things, being concerned about future events and so on. I on the other hand have a very limited ability both to live in the past (because my memory is rubbish except for specific facts and information), and also have great problems planning ahead and thinking about things in the future. The only things I am able to get concerned with is what I'm doing and feeling right now this moment, and thinking only about the very next immediate things I have to do. So to me the two are far from exclusive, but I guess it depends a bit on what you put into the terms.


I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not so sure this describes living in the present moment so much as it describes having a poor memory to recall the past and poor executive functions to plan ahead for the future. This is evidenced by the fact that you say you're thinking about the very next things you have to do - which is thinking about the future, vs. being fully present and focused on the Now, and can generate stress & anxiety.


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


alwaysnow
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 90

26 Apr 2014, 6:08 pm

Heh, that's ok I'm not entirely sure either but as you saw in my post I am fully aware of what I identified as some of the main reasons that I may in some sense be living in the present, but I probably described it a bit awkwardly. Since I was mainly thinking about some underlying reasons when I wrote that post I ironically didn't really describe my actual experience with living in the present, which I think I'm able to do a lot regardless of what I wrote earlier. When outside and around other people I especially feel I am very much present (almost don't have any anxiety anymore compared to before), but still with all the things that have to do directly with aspergers there will probably always be a very big qualitative difference between what could be considered living in the present for an aspie and for an nt.



goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,253
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

26 Apr 2014, 8:53 pm

This video just popped up in my Facebook newsfeed & it's a very decent explanation of being present:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXGnK-vqUtQ[/youtube]


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


Off_Topic
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 25 Apr 2014
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 10
Location: In front of the computer

26 Apr 2014, 10:09 pm

It's easy to say, "I've grown out of most of it."

In reality, my brain has developed 'work around the problem' systems to make it easier to operate in the real world. I still get caught staring off into space. I still get caught talking to myself. I still don't like crowds that expect social interaction from me.

I have a very mild case of asperger. It is easy for me to see how debilitating a severe case would be.


_________________
Humans think they are more intelligent than dolphins because of cities, digital watches and nuclear weapons. Dolphins think they are more intelligent than humans for the very same reasons--Douglas Adams